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Brutalist Southbank Centre Listed

architectsjournal.co.uk

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Re: Brutalist Southbank Centre Listed

#41

Post by calpaterson »

codeulike wrote: post #28

hand drawn architectural cross section from the 1960s https://shop.barbican.org.uk/products/pod1049390 edit: misread the title, thought we were talking about the barbican again

The Barbican is similar in many ways: a place that people either like or dislike depending on subjective personal preference but objectively has never actually worked very well.

cf this programme from the BBC Archive: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvXpvH99tic It was clearly badly designed and problematic right from the start with little in the way of shops or services for the residents. But that's the thing about monumentalist architecture: looks singular but function is an afterthought. The south bank centre is similar.

Re: Brutalist Southbank Centre Listed

#43

Post by lkm0 »

I'm startled by people who say they love brutalism as an architecture. I'm able to enjoy the aesthetic, but _actually_ being for it as a viable way of housing human activity seems irresponsible. It's similar to saying "I love Beksinski paintings and wish people lived in them". What's even worse with brutalism is that the lack of form usually follows the lack of function: dark water streaks and humidity issues because gutters are for the weak, car-centric design, etc. People associate brutalism with urban decay because it's pretty much purpose built for that.

Re: Brutalist Southbank Centre Listed

#44

Post by thomasfl »

Some brutalist architecture may be preserved, as a warning for future generations about the danger of mixing politics, ideology and architecture.

I am the founder of the architectural uprising non-profit in Norway. The primary goal of architecture is in my view to increase peoples quality of life and to ensure social, economic and environmentally sustainability for future generations. Both the Southbank center and the Barbican center in London fails in my view. Innovation in architecture is a good thing. Now lets face the fact that most brutalists experiments over the last 80 years has failed miserably. Intensions in architecture is good. But not this buildings intentions of eradicating history and ignoring peoples feelings.

Re: Brutalist Southbank Centre Listed

#45

Post by TomWhitwell »

calpaterson wrote: post #37

A shame. It's a huge complex of fairly sparse buildings right in the centre of the capital city. Listing it just puts big obstacles in front of changing it, which I really wish we could do. People just like how it looks but actually it's not a very useful space for society and I wish it could be changed. I lived locally for 10 years and visited only a handful of times. Mostly it was just an obstacle in itself: it cre…

> lived locally for 10 years and visited only a handful of times

That was a mistake

Re: Brutalist Southbank Centre Listed

#46

Post by EastLondonCoder »

jjmarr wrote: post #6

I don't care what people say. I love brutalist architecture. I love the exposed concrete forms. I love the giant concrete turkey in Toronto and plan to one day visit the UK to see the Barbican. Concrete is strong and imposing and emotional. It feels authoritative and cold. A warm building feels like it has deliberately undermined its own status to feel welcoming and feels fake. A brutalist building doesn't lie. It is…

I lived in London for 15 years. Southbank and the Barbican were some of my favourite places there.

Barbican is particularly interesting since its part of the city of London, and whereas the city mostly contains bad neoclassical designs that feel dystopian and inhuman Barbican feels like a fresh breath of air.

It has a human centric design and it uses water and greenery to temper the concrete.

Its interesting that crowds in connection to or within the southbank center also always feel lively. I'm uncertain of why, perhaps the concrete makes a counterpoint to humanness and makes us focus on the people in the vicinity.

Perhaps its the cultural programming. But the end result for me was that whenever I was around these blocks of concrete I was almost always in a good mood.

Re: Brutalist Southbank Centre Listed

#47

Post by LightBug1 »

calpaterson wrote: post #37

A shame. It's a huge complex of fairly sparse buildings right in the centre of the capital city. Listing it just puts big obstacles in front of changing it, which I really wish we could do. People just like how it looks but actually it's not a very useful space for society and I wish it could be changed. I lived locally for 10 years and visited only a handful of times. Mostly it was just an obstacle in itself: it cre…

Take your point but I'd err on the side of caution. Anything like that un-listed is ripe for one day getting completely ruined, and it is iconic and culturally very valuable.

I can think of 1000 other spaces in London that could be changed first before going anywhere near Southbank Centre.

I'm just happy the skatepark is now protected. Others may differ.

Re: Brutalist Southbank Centre Listed

#48

Post by jillesvangurp »

AJRF wrote: post #25

Is there something wrong with me that I love Brutalist buildings? The Barbican in London is my favourite building and it feels so futuristic to me for some reason.

Some buildings can be nice. But the real crime with brutalism was the stuff that got demolished to make room for it. Also, a lot of brutalist buildings have not aged well. Concrete gets ugly after a few decades.

And there's also the notion that a lot of brutalist architecture that isn't all that beautiful. There are some counter examples of course. But there are also plenty of really nasty urban areas that aren't exactly attracting hordes of tourists because it makes people feel miserable rather than amazed. Cheap construction, a vision that never panned out, etc.

I'm a big fan of the Bauhaus movement because it combines elements of what later became the brutalist movement but with a human perspective. There's something very optimistic about it and they thought hard about the human scale of things and how people would live in these buildings. A lot of that design still feels modern and progressive even a century later. Brutalism lost that human perspective.

Re: Brutalist Southbank Centre Listed

#49

Post by TomWhitwell »

eigenspace wrote: post #3

Absolutely hideous, alienating, and inhuman. Not everything in cities needs to very preserved.

It’s not an exaggeration to say that every day of the year, from maybe noon to midnight, these buildings are surrounded by people enjoying the city - walking along the river, going to arts events, eating out, walking between offices. It’s a hugely popular free public resource that is a massive good for Londoners. Previously (not here but at other points on the river) the water front was private - accessible only to people inside buildings - or derelict, like the areas around Tate Modern and Tower Bridge. This is one of the most human and whatever the opposite of alienating spaces in London today.

Re: Brutalist Southbank Centre Listed

#50

Post by LightBug1 »

eigenspace wrote: post #3

Absolutely hideous, alienating, and inhuman. Not everything in cities needs to very preserved.

The Southbank Centre is one of the cultural gems of London and, I'd argue, the world ... you can have your opinion on what it looks like from the outside, but what goes on inside and around it make it incredibly valuable ... so what I assume is your off-the-cuff remark is way off.
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