WiFi could become an invisible mass surveillance system • Hacker News Board

Re: WiFi could become an invisible mass surveillance system

#41

Post by amelius » Wed, Feb 11, 2026, 4:54 PM UTC

alexpotato wrote: post #23

Not sure how many people are aware that the newer Alexa devices have "presence detection" that uses ultrasound so they can detect when people are nearby. [0] Heck, even Ecobee remote temperature sensors can do this. Reminds me of the story about how the Google Nest smoke detector had a microphone in it. [1] 0 - https://www.amazon.com/b?node=23435461011&tag=googhydr-20&hv... 1- https://www.reddit.com/r/privacy/comment…

Every capacitor can be a potential microphone ...

Re: WiFi could become an invisible mass surveillance system

#42

Post by TimTheTinker » Wed, Feb 11, 2026, 4:54 PM UTC

I don't see how this is categorically any different from hidden networked cameras. Perhaps that's the real issue we should be focusing on in terms of privacy and mass surveillance.

Re: WiFi could become an invisible mass surveillance system

#43

Post by bethekidyouwant » Wed, Feb 11, 2026, 5:00 PM UTC

I’m not understanding this. You still have to deploy a piece of hardware to read the Wi-Fi waves. Why wouldn’t you just deploy some other piece of hardware that’s better at surveilling the surroundings?

Re: WiFi could become an invisible mass surveillance system

#44

Post by Aurornis » Wed, Feb 11, 2026, 5:01 PM UTC

sponaugle wrote: post #26

This is a VERY controlled environment - and they used 20 passes of each person walking with direct knowledge of each person to train for identity. They did no tests with multiple people walking at the same time, or with any other external moving distortion effects (doors opening, etc) . This is very far from actual 'identification' of people in real public settings - and no doubt the cell phone everyone is carrying w…

Exactly. All of these stories using WiFi to detect things with high accuracy are just extreme machine learning demos.

Given a tightly controlled environment and enough training data, you can use a lot of things as sensors.

These techniques are not useful for general purpose sensing, though. The WiFi router in your home isn't useful for this.

Re: WiFi could become an invisible mass surveillance system

#45

Post by bethekidyouwant » Wed, Feb 11, 2026, 5:03 PM UTC

I’m not understanding this. You still have to deploy a piece of hardware to read the Wi-Fi waves. Why wouldn’t you just deploy some other piece of hardware that’s better at surveilling the surroundings? Also, if the Wi-Fi device is in the area are not busy now your camera is off that doesn’t seem good

Re: WiFi could become an invisible mass surveillance system

#46

Post by misiek08 » Wed, Feb 11, 2026, 5:03 PM UTC

Scary title, 3 month late into the party… really we don’t deserve better articles with non-dramatic content, much faster?

Re: WiFi could become an invisible mass surveillance system

#47

Post by bethekidyouwant » Wed, Feb 11, 2026, 5:04 PM UTC

I’m not understanding this. You still have to deploy a piece of hardware to read the Wi-Fi waves. Why wouldn’t you just deploy some other piece of hardware that’s better at surveilling the surroundings? Also, if the Wi-Fi device is in the area are not busy now your camera is off that doesn’t seem good. Also, I imagine you have to tune it for every environment, geometry that doesn’t sound easy.

Re: WiFi could become an invisible mass surveillance system

#48

Post by ibejoeb » Wed, Feb 11, 2026, 5:05 PM UTC

Reminds me of the xfinity in-home wifi motion detection, discussed here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44426726

Re: WiFi could become an invisible mass surveillance system

#49

Post by bethekidyouwant » Wed, Feb 11, 2026, 5:05 PM UTC

I’m not understanding this. You still have to deploy a piece of hardware to read the Wi-Fi waves. Why wouldn’t you just deploy some other piece of hardware that’s better at surveilling the surroundings? Also, if the Wi-Fi device is in the area are not busy now your camera is off that doesn’t seem good. Also, I imagine you have to tune it for every environment, geometry that doesn’t sound easy. And then after all that work, I move my Wi-Fi router 4 inches to the left.

Re: WiFi could become an invisible mass surveillance system

#50

Post by barrystaes » Wed, Feb 11, 2026, 5:09 PM UTC

Android devices already know exactly where they are even with GPS disabled, because they sniff the nearby WIFI networks and then ask Google where they are. QED Google knows already, all combined is mass metadata surveillance already provided to those that tap into it.

Any sub-meter precision or presence detection does not really matter, if these companies have all your other questions, queries, messages, calendars, browse history, app usage, and streaming behaviour as well.