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How to effectively write quality code with AI

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Re: How to effectively write quality code with AI

#41

Post by rustyhancock »

bwestergard wrote: post #38
blmarket wrote: post #34

Some pattern I found from my hobby project. 1. Keep things small and review everything AI written, or 2. Keep things bloated and let AI do whatever it wants within the designated interface. Initially I drew this line for API service / UI components, but it later expanded to other domains. e.g. For my hobby rust project I try to keep "trait"s to be single responsible, never overlap, easy to understand etc etc. but I n…

Do you think Rust will end up getting a boost from LLM adoption?

It definitely has for me! I just replied to the parent explaining why.

Tl;Dr I don't mind reading rust I hate writing it and the compiler meets me in the middle.

Re: How to effectively write quality code with AI

#42

Post by the_duke »

OptionOfT wrote: post #2

I wonder at the end of this if it's the still worth the risk? A lot of how I form my thoughts is driven by writing code, and seeing it on screen, running into its limitations. Maybe it's the kind of work I'm doing, or maybe I just suck, but the code to me is a forcing mechanism into ironing out the details, and I don't get that when I'm writing a specification.

That's because many developers are used to working like this.

With AI, the correct approach is to think more like a software architect.

Learning to plan things out in your head upfront without to figure things out while coding requires a mindset shift, but is important to work effectively with the new tools.

To some this comes naturally, for others it is very hard.

Re: How to effectively write quality code with AI

#43

Post by i5heu »

raphman wrote: post #22

Hi i5heu. Given that you seem to use AI tools for generating images and audio versions of your posts, I hope it is not too rude to ask: how much of the post was drafted, written or edited with AI? The suggestions you make are all sensible but maybe a little bit generic and obvious. Asking ChatGPT to generate advice on effectively writing quality code with AI generates a lot of similar suggestions (albeit less well wr…

Hi raphman,

i have written this text by myself except like 2 or 3 sentences which i iterated with an LLM to nail down flow and readability. I would interpret that as completely written by me.

> The suggestions you make are all sensible but maybe a little bit generic and obvious. Asking ChatGPT to generate advice on effectively writing quality code with AI generates a lot of similar suggestions (albeit less well written).

Before i wrote this text, i also asked Gemini Deep Research but for me the results where too technical and not structural or high level as i describe them here. Hence the blogpost to share what i have found works best.

> If not, I'd suggest to augment the post with practical examples or anecdotal experience. At the moment, the target group seems to be novice programmers rather than the typical HN reader.

I have pondered the idea and also wrote a few anecdotal experiences but i deleted them again because i think it is hard to nail the right balance down and it is also highly depended on the project, what renders examples a bit useless.

And i also kind of like the short and lean nature of it the last few days when i worked on the blogpost. I might will make a few more blogposts about that, that will expand a few points.

Thank you for your feedback!

Re: How to effectively write quality code with AI

#44

Post by einpoklum »

computerex wrote: post #18
einpoklum wrote: post #5

That sounds like the advice of someone who doesn't actually write high-quality code. Perhaps a better title would be "how to get something better than pure slop when letting a chatbot code for you" - and then it's not bad advice I suppose. I would still avoid such code if I can help it at all.

Can you be specific? You didn't provide any constructive feedback, whatsoever.

The article did not provide a constructive suggestion on how to write quality code, either. Nor even empirical proof in the form of quality code written by LLMs/agents via the application of those principles.

Re: How to effectively write quality code with AI

#45

Post by rapind »

OptionOfT wrote: post #2

I wonder at the end of this if it's the still worth the risk? A lot of how I form my thoughts is driven by writing code, and seeing it on screen, running into its limitations. Maybe it's the kind of work I'm doing, or maybe I just suck, but the code to me is a forcing mechanism into ironing out the details, and I don't get that when I'm writing a specification.

I still do this, but when I'm reviewing what's been written and / or testing what's been built.

How I see it is we've reverted back to a heavier spec type approach, however the turn around time is so fast with agents that it still can feel very iterative simply because the cost of bailing on an approach is so minimal. I treat the spec (and tests when applicable) as the real work now. I front load as much as I can into the spec, but I also iterate constantly. I often completely bail on a feature or the overall approach to a feature as I discover (with the agent) that I'm just not happy with the gotchas that come to light.

AI agents to me are a tool. An accelerator. I think there are people who've figured out a more vibey approach that works for them, but for now at least, my approach is to review and think about everything we're producing, which forms my thoughts as we go.

Re: How to effectively write quality code with AI

#46

Post by adriand »

whynotminot wrote: post #15

The real value that AI provides is the speed at which it works, and its almost human-like ability to “get it” and reasonably handle ambiguity. Almost like tasking a fellow engineer. That’s the value. By the time you do everything outlined here you’ve basically recreated waterfall and lost all speed advantage. Might as well write the code yourself and just use AI as first-pass peer review on the code you’ve written. A…

It’s a solid post overall and even for people with a lot of experience there’s some good ideas in here. “Identify and mark functions that have a high security risk, such as authentication, authorization” is one such good idea - I take more time when the code is in these areas but an explicit marking system is a great suggestion. In addition to immediate review benefits, it means that future updates will have that context.

“Break things down” is something most of us do instinctively now but it’s something I see less experienced people fail at all the time.

Re: How to effectively write quality code with AI

#47

Post by rapind »

gtowey wrote: post #30
Akranazon wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everything you have said here is completely true, except for "not in that group": the cost-benefit analysis clearly favors letting these tools rip, even despite the drawbacks.

Maybe. But it's also likely that these tools will produce mountains of unmaintainable code and people will get buried by the technical debt. It kind of strikes me as similar to the hubris of calling the Titanic "unsinkable." It's an untested claim with potentially disastrous consequences.

> But it's also likely that these tools will produce mountains of unmaintainable code and people will get buried by the technical debt.

It's not just likely, but it's guaranteed to happen if you're not keeping an eye on it. So much so, that it's really reinforced my existing prejudice towards typed and compiled languages to reduce some of the checking you need to do.

Using an agent with a dynamic language feels very YOLO to me. I guess you can somewhat compensate with reams of tests though. (which begs the question, is the dynamic language still saving you time?)

Re: How to effectively write quality code with AI

#48

Post by shockwaverider »

emsign wrote: post #35

Sounds like an awful lot of work and nannying just to avoid writing code yourself. Coding used to be fun and enjoyable once...

I’m finding it to be the opposite. I used to love writing everything by hand but now Claude is giving me the ability to focus more on architecture. I like just sitting down with my coffee and thinking about the next part of my project, how I’d like it to be written and Claude just fills it in for me. It makes mistakes at times but it also finds a lot of mine that I hadn’t even realized were in my code base.

Re: How to effectively write quality code with AI

#49

Post by skydhash »

the_duke wrote: post #42
OptionOfT wrote: post #2

I wonder at the end of this if it's the still worth the risk? A lot of how I form my thoughts is driven by writing code, and seeing it on screen, running into its limitations. Maybe it's the kind of work I'm doing, or maybe I just suck, but the code to me is a forcing mechanism into ironing out the details, and I don't get that when I'm writing a specification.

That's because many developers are used to working like this. With AI, the correct approach is to think more like a software architect. Learning to plan things out in your head upfront without to figure things out while coding requires a mindset shift, but is important to work effectively with the new tools. To some this comes naturally, for others it is very hard.

I think what GP is referring too are technical semantics and accidental complexity. You can’t plan for those.

The same kind of planning you’re describing can and do happen sans LLM, usually on the sofa, or in front of a whiteboard. Or by reading some research materials. No good programmer rushes to coding without a clear objective.

But the map is not the territory. A lot of questions surface during coding. LLMs will guess and the result may be correct according to the plan, but technically poor, unreliable, or downright insecure.

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