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BMW's Newest "Innovation" Is a Logo-Shaped Middle Finger to Right to Repair

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Re: BMW's Newest "Innovation" Is a Logo-Shaped Middle Finger to Right to Repair

#41

Post by bitwize »

tialaramex wrote: post #22
schuppentier wrote: post #19

This feels like they want to use trademark law to prevent third-party products. You can't legally produce the screws without baiscally copying the BMW logo onto it. I don't know if a similar argument would hold water for the drivers though.

IIRC in Europe at least that doesn't work because now your third party has the defence of necessity. They didn't want to use your protected mark, but it was necessary or else their product wouldn't work, so, the protection doesn't apply.

In the USA, in Sega v. Accolade the judge ruled that you can't use a trademark to block access to your stuff. The context was, the Sega Genesis DRM had a check for the string "SEGA" somewhere in the game's ROM; presumably, Sega reasoned that they could license their trademarked name for this purpose to licensed devs and sue makers of unlicensed cartridges for trademark infringement; and did sue Accolade when they attempted to publish unlicensed games for copyright and trademark infringement. The appeals judge overturned an earlier decision in favor of Sega, citing that trademarks can't be used to block what would otherwise be a fair-use act.

Much of Sega v. Accolade was overruled by the DMCA, which explicitly makes defeating DRM a crime in the general case. But the prohibition against using trademarks to gatekeep people performing legal, nonfraudulent activity probably remains and may be cited in future cases.

Re: BMW's Newest "Innovation" Is a Logo-Shaped Middle Finger to Right to Repair

#42

Post by RankingMember »

torginus wrote: post #29

I think this is misunderstood - everybody points out that how evil BMW is for trying to be proprietary, then immediately points out any Chinese factory can produce a compatible tool for pennies - which one is it? I think this is a pretty good mechanical design in general because: - large contact surface (like hex or torx) - no chance of slide-out (like flathead) or torque-out (like Philips) - you can use a different…

> everybody points out that how evil BMW is for trying to be proprietary, then immediately points out any Chinese factory can produce a compatible tool for pennies - which one is it?

Just because there's a workaround for an unnecessary annoying thing doesn't mean the thing ceases to be unnecessary and annoying.

Re: BMW's Newest "Innovation" Is a Logo-Shaped Middle Finger to Right to Repair

#43

Post by toss1 »

chubs wrote: post #5

BMW resale values make it very clear: these cars are actively hostile (in many many ways) to their owners the second they go out of warranty. Pity, their interiors are lovely. In the long term, is this strategy going to work out for them? I won't buy another one. I know... anecdata :)

BMW used to be extremely good and very repairable/upgradeable.

They have clearly lost their way. Seems like a fundamental loss of confidence in their ability to produce leading technology, and instead feeling like they must defensively focus on blocking and extracting maximum funds from customers, both with costly "authorized-only" repairs and subscriptions for heated seats.

Sad

Re: BMW's Newest "Innovation" Is a Logo-Shaped Middle Finger to Right to Repair

#44

Post by torginus »

RankingMember wrote: post #42
torginus wrote: post #29

I think this is misunderstood - everybody points out that how evil BMW is for trying to be proprietary, then immediately points out any Chinese factory can produce a compatible tool for pennies - which one is it? I think this is a pretty good mechanical design in general because: - large contact surface (like hex or torx) - no chance of slide-out (like flathead) or torque-out (like Philips) - you can use a different…

> everybody points out that how evil BMW is for trying to be proprietary, then immediately points out any Chinese factory can produce a compatible tool for pennies - which one is it? Just because there's a workaround for an unnecessary annoying thing doesn't mean the thing ceases to be unnecessary and annoying.

An I am pointing out the design has merit from a purely mechanical perspective, and is a very poor method for actually preventing third party repair.

BMW has done some despicable things as pointed out by a recent article, like welding in a pyrotechnic fuse that would kill the battery when the car detected a fault, and which could only be replaced by cutting the factory sealed battery case open, or installing 'theft protection' measurers, which could brick ECUs if an unlicensed repair shop would attempt repairs on the car (which have been known to trigger even when the dealership attempted to fix the issue using official tools)

Re: BMW's Newest "Innovation" Is a Logo-Shaped Middle Finger to Right to Repair

#45

Post by MisterTea »

torginus wrote: post #44
RankingMember wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> everybody points out that how evil BMW is for trying to be proprietary, then immediately points out any Chinese factory can produce a compatible tool for pennies - which one is it? Just because there's a workaround for an unnecessary annoying thing doesn't mean the thing ceases to be unnecessary and annoying.

An I am pointing out the design has merit from a purely mechanical perspective, and is a very poor method for actually preventing third party repair. BMW has done some despicable things as pointed out by a recent article, like welding in a pyrotechnic fuse that would kill the battery when the car detected a fault, and which could only be replaced by cutting the factory sealed battery case open, or installing 'theft p…

> An I am pointing out the design has merit from a purely mechanical perspective, and is a very poor method for actually preventing third party repair.

It sounds like you are defending both the design and the decision with nothing said about it being a poor method.

Re: BMW's Newest "Innovation" Is a Logo-Shaped Middle Finger to Right to Repair

#46

Post by MisterTea »

torginus wrote: post #29

I think this is misunderstood - everybody points out that how evil BMW is for trying to be proprietary, then immediately points out any Chinese factory can produce a compatible tool for pennies - which one is it? I think this is a pretty good mechanical design in general because: - large contact surface (like hex or torx) - no chance of slide-out (like flathead) or torque-out (like Philips) - you can use a different…

> which one is it?

Which what? I honestly don't understand what the comparison is or what is misunderstood as there is nothing to misunderstand - it's a proprietary screw designed to defeat self/unlicensed repair - FULL STOP. Fuck the technical merit. And the point of mentioning that Chinese factories can produce cheap knock-offs is to demonstrate how absurd of a anti-consumer measure this is.

Re: BMW's Newest "Innovation" Is a Logo-Shaped Middle Finger to Right to Repair

#48

Post by Cpoll »

chii wrote: post #39
nic547 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And that would violate both BMWs Trademark and Patent, which at least in Switzerland could mean having to pay BMW damages and get fined for importing counterfeit goods.

good thing that it would be a chinese copy, and thus, not subject to switzerland law. So i wonder if chinese law recognize this patent/trademark for a screw?

Their point is that there's a possibility that Swiss customs fines them and confiscates the "counterfeit."

Re: BMW's Newest "Innovation" Is a Logo-Shaped Middle Finger to Right to Repair

#49

Post by MisterTea »

voidUpdate wrote: post #4

I'd be interested to know how BMW manufactures those screws. The patterns in the metal in the image suggest the entire hole was drilled out? The deepest part has circular marks inside that looks like the marks left by a facing tool on a lathe or similar. Then I guess the two wedges were inserted and the whole screw faced?

The prototypes might be milled and/or produced via additive manufacturing (3D printing.) In production the heads are likely formed via stamping. Here's an old video I remember watching as a kid (Unfortunately quite pixelated) of the Robertson screw being manufactured which has a tapered square profile for the bit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Td7GjAMAY7Y (The Acme School of Stuff was awesome for its time and still is.)

Re: BMW's Newest "Innovation" Is a Logo-Shaped Middle Finger to Right to Repair

#50

Post by garyfirestorm »

smitty1e wrote: post #3
general1465 wrote: post #2

Correct bit for screwdriver available on AliExpress 5 minutes after the bolt is available for public.

Fine. But the broader point is that the customer is the product, not the owner of a purchase.

That makes me wonder if customer is the product, who is the owner?
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