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GPT-5.2 and GPT-5.2-Codex are now 40% faster

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Re: GPT-5.2 and GPT-5.2-Codex are now 40% faster

#41

OpenAI in my estimation has the habit of dropping a model's quality after its introduction. I definitely recall the web ChatGPT 5.2 being a lot better when it was introduced. A week or two later, its quality suddenly dropped. The initial high looked to be to throw off journalists and benchmarks. As such, nothing that OpenAI says in terms of model speed can be trusted. All they have to do is lower the reasoning effort…

I mean you can just run the benchmark again

How are you going to benchmark the web ChatGPT Plus, which is where a reduction was suspected?

Re: GPT-5.2 and GPT-5.2-Codex are now 40% faster

#42

OpenAI in my estimation has the habit of dropping a model's quality after its introduction. I definitely recall the web ChatGPT 5.2 being a lot better when it was introduced. A week or two later, its quality suddenly dropped. The initial high looked to be to throw off journalists and benchmarks. As such, nothing that OpenAI says in terms of model speed can be trusted. All they have to do is lower the reasoning effort…

OpenAI isn't the only one:

Anthropic:

https://marginlab.ai/trackers/claude-code/

Re: GPT-5.2 and GPT-5.2-Codex are now 40% faster

#43
post #31

OpenAI in my estimation has the habit of dropping a model's quality after its introduction. I definitely recall the web ChatGPT 5.2 being a lot better when it was introduced. A week or two later, its quality suddenly dropped. The initial high looked to be to throw off journalists and benchmarks. As such, nothing that OpenAI says in terms of model speed can be trusted. All they have to do is lower the reasoning effort…

Someone should create a daily benchmark site for Codex like they did for Claude

I see https://marginlab.ai/trackers/codex/

Re: GPT-5.2 and GPT-5.2-Codex are now 40% faster

#44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

people are sleeping on openai right now but codex 5.2 xhigh is at least as good as opus and you get a TON more usage out of the OpenAI $20/mo plan than Claude's $20/mo plan. I'm always hitting the 5 hour quota with Opus but never have with Codex. Codex tool itself is not quite as good but close.

Is there a plan like the $100 Claude Max? $200 for ChatGPT Pro is a little bit too much for me. Whereas Claude Max 5x is enough that I don’t really run out with my usage patterns.

If $20/mo Claude is not enough for you but 5x Claude at $100/mo is, the $20 chatgpt plus subscription might give you enough codex for your usage

Re: GPT-5.2 and GPT-5.2-Codex are now 40% faster

#45
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's good to be skeptical, but I'm happy to share that we don't pull shenanigans like this. We actually take quite a bit of care to report evals fairly, keep API model behavior constant, and track down reports of degraded performance in case we've accidentally introduced bugs. If we were degrading model behavior, it would be pretty easy to catch us with evals against our API. In this particular case, I'm happy to rep…

It looks like you do pull shenanigans like these [0]. The person you're replying to even mentioned "ChatGPT 5.2", but you're specifically talking only about the API, while making it sound like it applies across the board. Also appreciate the attempt to further hide this degradation of the product they paid for from users by blocking the prompt used to figure this out. Happy to retract if you can state [0] is false. […

Yes, independent of the API speedup, we also recently reduced the thinking effort in ChatGPT. Our intent here was purely user experience, not cost savings. People have complained about the slow speeds of the Thinking models for a long time (myself included), so we recently retuned it to be faster, at the expense of less thoroughness.

I won't BS you that costs are never part of our decision making. If costs didn't matter, we'd have unlimited rate limits and 10M token context windows and subscription pricing of $0. But as someone in the room where these decisions are made, I can honestly report that our goal is almost always trying to figure out how to make people happier, not trick them. We're trying to fairly earn subscriptions, not scam anyone. In the cases where we have accidentally misled people (e.g., saying voice mode was weeks away), it was optimistic planning, not nefarious intent.

API model behavior is guaranteed to nearly stay the same (modulo standard non-determinism, bugs, etc.). ChatGPT is harder to promise, not because we pull more shenanigans there, but just because we might tweak system prompts, add/remove tools, run A/B tests, etc. that vary performance a bit. But we definitely don't do things like quantize during busy parts of the day or nerf models after publishing evals - that would feel pretty shady.

Re: GPT-5.2 and GPT-5.2-Codex are now 40% faster

#46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's good to be skeptical, but I'm happy to share that we don't pull shenanigans like this. We actually take quite a bit of care to report evals fairly, keep API model behavior constant, and track down reports of degraded performance in case we've accidentally introduced bugs. If we were degrading model behavior, it would be pretty easy to catch us with evals against our API. In this particular case, I'm happy to rep…

Hey Ted, can you confirm whether this 40% improvement is specific to API customers or if that's just a wording thing because this is the OpenAI Developers account posting?

It's specific to the API.

Re: GPT-5.2 and GPT-5.2-Codex are now 40% faster

#47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's good to be skeptical, but I'm happy to share that we don't pull shenanigans like this. We actually take quite a bit of care to report evals fairly, keep API model behavior constant, and track down reports of degraded performance in case we've accidentally introduced bugs. If we were degrading model behavior, it would be pretty easy to catch us with evals against our API. In this particular case, I'm happy to rep…

I've seen Sam Altman make similar claims in interviews, and I now interpret every statement from an Open AI employee (and especially Sam) as if an Aes Sedai had said it. I.e.: "keep API model behavior constant" says nothing about the consumer ChatGPT web app, mobile apps, third-party integrations, etc. Similarly, it might mean very specifically that a "certain model timestamp" remains constant but the generic "-lates…

That's a fair suspicion - I'll freely acknowledge that I am biased towards saying things that are simple and known, and I steer away from topics that feel too proprietary, messy, etc.

ChatGPT model behavior can definitely change over time. We share release notes here (https://help.openai.com/en/articles/6825453-chatgpt-release-...), and we also make changes or run A/B tests that aren't reported there. Plus, ChatGPT has memory, so as you use it, its behavior can technically change even with no changes on our end.

That said, I do my best to be honest and communicate the way that I would want someone to communicate with me.

Re: GPT-5.2 and GPT-5.2-Codex are now 40% faster

#48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's good to be skeptical, but I'm happy to share that we don't pull shenanigans like this. We actually take quite a bit of care to report evals fairly, keep API model behavior constant, and track down reports of degraded performance in case we've accidentally introduced bugs. If we were degrading model behavior, it would be pretty easy to catch us with evals against our API. In this particular case, I'm happy to rep…

You're confirming you don't alter "juice" levels..?

No, we did adjust the thinking levels in ChatGPT recently, but it was motivated by trying to improve the product based on what users told us, not cost savings. I wrote a bit more here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46887150

Re: GPT-5.2 and GPT-5.2-Codex are now 40% faster

#49
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It looks like you do pull shenanigans like these [0]. The person you're replying to even mentioned "ChatGPT 5.2", but you're specifically talking only about the API, while making it sound like it applies across the board. Also appreciate the attempt to further hide this degradation of the product they paid for from users by blocking the prompt used to figure this out. Happy to retract if you can state [0] is false. […

Yes, independent of the API speedup, we also recently reduced the thinking effort in ChatGPT. Our intent here was purely user experience, not cost savings. People have complained about the slow speeds of the Thinking models for a long time (myself included), so we recently retuned it to be faster, at the expense of less thoroughness. I won't BS you that costs are never part of our decision making. If costs didn't mat…

Chatgpt 5.2 in the past couple of weeks has gotten noticeably worse for me to the point that I stopped using it and just ask claude code questions instead.
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