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X offices raided in France as UK opens fresh investigation into Grok

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Re: X offices raided in France as UK opens fresh investigation into Grok

#41

Post by lawn »

chrisjj wrote: post #12
mortarion wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CSAM does not have a universal definition. In Sweden for instance, CSAM is any image of an underage subject (real or realistic digital) designed to evoke a sexual response. If you take a picture of a 14 year old girl (age of consent is 15) and use Grok to give her bikini, or make her topless, then you are most definately producing and possessing CSAM. No abuse of a real minor is needed.

> CSAM does not have a universal definition. Strange that there was no disagreement before "AI", right? Yet now we have a clutch of new "definitions" all of which dilute and weaken the meaning. > In Sweden for instance, CSAM is any image of an underage subject (real or realistic digital) designed to evoke a sexual response. No corroboration found on web. Quite the contrary, in fact: "Sweden does not have a legislativ…

In Swedish:

https://www.regeringen.se/contentassets/5f881006d4d346b199ca...

> Även en bild där ett barn t.ex. genom speciella kameraarrangemang framställs på ett sätt som är ägnat att vädja till sexualdriften, utan att det avbildade barnet kan sägas ha deltagit i ett sexuellt beteende vid avbildningen, kan omfattas av bestämmelsen.

Which translated means that the children does not have to be apart of sexual acts and indeed undressing a child using AI could be CSAM.

I say "could" because all laws are open to interpretation in Sweden and it depends on the specific image. But it's safe to say that many images produces by Grok are CSAM by Swedish standards.

Re: X offices raided in France as UK opens fresh investigation into Grok

#42

Post by mkjs »

omnimus wrote: post #26
pu_pe wrote: post #11

I suppose those are the offices from SpaceX now that they merged.

So France is raiding offices of US military contractor?

How is that relevant? Are you implying that being a US military contractor should make you immune to the laws of other countries that you operate in?

The onus is on the contractor to make sure any classified information is kept securely. If by raiding an office in France a bunch of US military secrets are found, it would suggest the company is not fit to have those kind of contracts.

Re: X offices raided in France as UK opens fresh investigation into Grok

#43

Post by tokai »

logicchains wrote: post #39
tokai wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In what world is generating CSAM a speech issue? Its really doing a disservice to actual free speech issues to frame it was such.

The point of banning real CSAM is to stop the production of it, because the production is inherently harmful. The production of AI or human generated CSAM-like images does not inherently require the harm of children, so it's fundamentally a different consideration. That's why some countries, notably Japan, allow the production of hand-drawn material that in the US would be considered CSAM.

That's not what we are discussing here. Even less when a lot of the material here is edits of real pictures.

Re: X offices raided in France as UK opens fresh investigation into Grok

#44

Post by Mordisquitos »

techblueberry wrote: post #27

I'm not saying I'm entirely against this, but just out of curiosity, what do they hope to find in a raid of the french offices, a folder labeled "Grok's CSAM Plan"?

What do they hope to find, specifically? Who knows, but maybe the prosecutors have a better awareness of specifics than us HN commenters who have not been involved in the investigation.

What may they find, hypothetically? Who knows, but maybe an internal email saying, for instance, 'Management says keep the nude photo functionality, just hide it behind a feature flag', or maybe 'Great idea to keep a backup of the images, but must cover our tracks', or perhaps 'Elon says no action on Grok nude images, we are officially unaware anything is happening.'

Re: X offices raided in France as UK opens fresh investigation into Grok

#45

Post by logicchains »

mortarion wrote: post #6
chrisjj wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

CSAM does not have a universal definition. In Sweden for instance, CSAM is any image of an underage subject (real or realistic digital) designed to evoke a sexual response. If you take a picture of a 14 year old girl (age of consent is 15) and use Grok to give her bikini, or make her topless, then you are most definately producing and possessing CSAM. No abuse of a real minor is needed.

You don't see a huge difference between abusing a child (and recording it) vs drawing/creating an image of a child in a sexual situation? Do you believe they should have the same legal treatment? In Japan for instance the latter is legal.

Re: X offices raided in France as UK opens fresh investigation into Grok

#46

Post by rented_mule »

chrisjj wrote: post #12
mortarion wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CSAM does not have a universal definition. In Sweden for instance, CSAM is any image of an underage subject (real or realistic digital) designed to evoke a sexual response. If you take a picture of a 14 year old girl (age of consent is 15) and use Grok to give her bikini, or make her topless, then you are most definately producing and possessing CSAM. No abuse of a real minor is needed.

> CSAM does not have a universal definition. Strange that there was no disagreement before "AI", right? Yet now we have a clutch of new "definitions" all of which dilute and weaken the meaning. > In Sweden for instance, CSAM is any image of an underage subject (real or realistic digital) designed to evoke a sexual response. No corroboration found on web. Quite the contrary, in fact: "Sweden does not have a legislativ…

> Even the Google "AI" knows better than that. CSAM "is [...]"

Please don't use the "knowledge" of LLMs as evidence or support for anything. Generative models generate things that have some likelihood of being consistent with their input material, they don't "know" things.

Just last night, I did a Google search related to the cell tower recently constructed next to our local fire house. Above the search results, Gemini stated that the new tower is physically located on the Facebook page of the fire department.

Does this support the idea that "some physical cell towers are located on Facebook pages"? It does not. At best, it supports that the likelihood that the generated text is completely consistent with the model's input is less than 100% and/or that input to the model was factually incorrect.

Re: X offices raided in France as UK opens fresh investigation into Grok

#47

Post by rsynnott »

techblueberry wrote: post #27

I'm not saying I'm entirely against this, but just out of curiosity, what do they hope to find in a raid of the french offices, a folder labeled "Grok's CSAM Plan"?

> what do they hope to find in a raid of the french offices, a folder labeled "Grok's CSAM Plan"?

You would be _amazed_ at the things that people commit to email and similar.

Here's a Facebook one (leaked, not extracted by authorities): https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/meta-ai-...

Re: X offices raided in France as UK opens fresh investigation into Grok

#48

Post by lawn »

antonymoose wrote: post #34
techblueberry wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In November 2012, Epstein sent Musk an email asking “how many people will you be for the heli to island”. “Probably just Talulah and me. What day/night will be the wildest party on your island?” Musk replied, in an apparent reference to his former wife Talulah Riley. https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2026/jan/30/elon-musk... I think there's just as much evidence Clinton did as Musk. Gates on the other hand.

To my knowledge Musk asked to go but never actually went. Clinton, however, went a dozen or so times with Epstein on his private jet? Has the latest release changed that narrative?

Musk did ask to go after Epstein was sentenced.

Re: X offices raided in France as UK opens fresh investigation into Grok

#49

Post by rsynnott »

cbeach wrote: post #19
derrida wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't equate the two. There's someone who was being held responsible for what was in encrypted chats. Then there's someone who published depictions of sexual abuse and minors. Worlds apart.

[flagged]

... Eh? This isn't about Musk's association with Epstein, it's about his CSAM generating magic robot (and also some other alleged dodgy practices around the GDPR etc).

Re: X offices raided in France as UK opens fresh investigation into Grok

#50

Post by Mordisquitos »

robtherobber wrote: post #3

> The prosecutor's office also said it was leaving X and would communicate on LinkedIn and Instagram from now on. I mean, perhaps it's time to completely drop these US-owned, closed-source, algo-driven controversial platforms, and start treating the communication with the public that funds your existence in different terms. The goal should be to reach as many people, of course, but also to ensure that the method and…

I agree with you. In my opinion it was already bad enough that official institutions were using Twitter as a communication platform before it belonged to Musk and started to restrict visibility to non-logged in users, but at least Twitter was arguably a mostly open communication platform and could be misunderstood as a public service in the minds of the less well-informed. However, deciding to "communicate" at this day and age on LinkedIn and Instagram, neither of which ever made a passing attempt to pretend to be a public communications service, boggles the mind.
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