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Linux From Scratch ends SysVinit support

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Re: Linux From Scratch ends SysVinit support

#41

Post by preisschild »

cf100clunk wrote: post #25
PunchyHamster wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

sysv is garbage tho. If unix philosophy is "make it do one thing and do it well", it doesn't do the one thing it is supposed to do well. I dislike overloading systemd with tools that are not related to running services but systemd does the "run services" (and auxiliary stuff like "make sure mount service uses is up before it is started" or "restart it if it dies" and hundred other things that are very service or use-…

I don't see how this relates to removing SysVinit support from LFS. Choice is good.

That "choice" still has to be maintained. And why spend effort when you can do the same things + more with systemd?

Re: Linux From Scratch ends SysVinit support

#42

Post by frumplestlatz »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #29
antonyh wrote: post #27

All I want is init scripts and X11, but the horizons are shrinking. I've already compromised with systemd, and I don't like it. I see BSD in my future, or at least a linux distro from the list here https://nosystemd.org/ - probably Gentoo. Nothing to stop me, absolutely nothing at all. I just need a few days free to backup/wipe/reinstall/reconfigure/restore_data and I'll be good. Better make that a few weeks. Maybe o…

Almost wonder if this kind of thing will be an impetus for GNU Hurd to get more momentum. I saw an update recently that they're now finally properly supporting 64bit and sounds like there's active dev going on there again. It apparently uses SysVInit

I would somewhat doubt it; the negative aspects of Mach’s design are a technical albatross around the neck of any kernel.

Apple has had to invest reams of engineering effort in mitigating Mach’s performance and security issues in XNU; systemd dissatisfaction alone seems unlikely to shift the needle towards Hurd.

Re: Linux From Scratch ends SysVinit support

#43

Post by raggi »

antonyh wrote: post #32
cmrdporcupine wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Almost wonder if this kind of thing will be an impetus for GNU Hurd to get more momentum. I saw an update recently that they're now finally properly supporting 64bit and sounds like there's active dev going on there again. It apparently uses SysVInit

I've heard of Hurd, but never felt tempted to try it. That could be an interesting option.

hurd init is a lot like systemd architecturally, it just gets to use kernel provided ipc rather than having to manage its own. if your objection to systemd is its architecture you don't want anything to do with hurd.

Re: Linux From Scratch ends SysVinit support

#44

Post by bigstrat2003 »

smartmic wrote: post #8

It's a pity. It's also a step back from valuing the Unix philosophy, which has its merits, especially for those with a "learning the system from scratch" mindset. Sorry, but I have no sympathy for systemd.

And on the other hand, I have no sympathy for the Unix philosophy. I value results, not dogma, and managing servers with systemd is far more pleasant than managing servers with sysvinit was. When a tool improves my sysadmin life as much as systemd has, I couldn't care less if it violates some purity rule to do so.

Re: Linux From Scratch ends SysVinit support

#45

Post by cientifico »

raggi wrote: post #36
cf100clunk wrote: post #2

This is a mindblower. To quote Bruce Dubbs: ''As a personal note, I do not like this decision. To me LFS is about learning how a system works. Understanding the boot process is a big part of that. systemd is about 1678 "C" files plus many data files. System V is "22" C files plus about 50 short bash scripts and data files. Yes, systemd provides a lot of capabilities, but we will be losing some things I consider impor…

https://github.com/systemd/systemd/tree/main/src/core doesn't look like 1678 C files to me.

Github says 2.8k files when selecting c (including headers...) https://github.com/search?q=repo%3Asystemd%2Fsystemd++langua...

If the project is even split in different parts that you need to understand... already makes the point.

Re: Linux From Scratch ends SysVinit support

#46

Post by raggi »

cf100clunk wrote: post #39
raggi wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://github.com/systemd/systemd/tree/main/src/core doesn't look like 1678 C files to me.

In what way was Bruce incorrect, your one link excepted?

he is counting every c file in the systemd _repository_ which houses multiple projects, libraries and daemons. he equates that to the c file count for a single init. it's a disingenuous comparison. systemd-init is a small slice of the code in the systemd repository.

Re: Linux From Scratch ends SysVinit support

#47

Post by [deleted] »

molticrystal wrote: post #20
soldoutcold wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am looking forward to UnixFromScratch and Year of Unix on the desktop as Linux more and more sells itself out to the overstuffed software virus that is System D.

While I'll ignore the System D hyperbole, your point about Unix has merit. I think the *BSD are also good, at least from an educational standpoint, with their relative simplicity and low system requirements. Since there is a lot of integration making a from scratch distro might take less material, but it could be supplemented with more in depth/sysadmin exploration.

[deleted]

Re: Linux From Scratch ends SysVinit support

#48

Post by hparadiz »

antonyh wrote: post #27

All I want is init scripts and X11, but the horizons are shrinking. I've already compromised with systemd, and I don't like it. I see BSD in my future, or at least a linux distro from the list here https://nosystemd.org/ - probably Gentoo. Nothing to stop me, absolutely nothing at all. I just need a few days free to backup/wipe/reinstall/reconfigure/restore_data and I'll be good. Better make that a few weeks. Maybe o…

OpenRC on Gentoo works great. I have a full bleeding edge Wayland KDE Plasma with Pipewire setup that I game on.

OpenRC recently added user "units" aka services running as a user after a session start. Something that many new GUI user space applications rely on for various things.

There are growing pains. https://bugs.gentoo.org/936123

Especially when upstream hard requires systemd. More annoying when there's no real reason for it.

But there is a way forward and I highly recommend people try to build software to work without systemd before assuming it's always there.

Re: Linux From Scratch ends SysVinit support

#49

Post by its_ubuntu2 »

antonyh wrote: post #27

All I want is init scripts and X11, but the horizons are shrinking. I've already compromised with systemd, and I don't like it. I see BSD in my future, or at least a linux distro from the list here https://nosystemd.org/ - probably Gentoo. Nothing to stop me, absolutely nothing at all. I just need a few days free to backup/wipe/reinstall/reconfigure/restore_data and I'll be good. Better make that a few weeks. Maybe o…

[flagged]

Re: Linux From Scratch ends SysVinit support

#50

Post by byte_0 »

From a completely technical standpoint, is systemd really better than SysVInit? I ask this question in good faith. I have used both and had no problems with either, although for personal preference, I am more traditional and favor SysVInit.
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