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UK government launches fuel forecourt price API

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Re: UK government launches fuel forecourt price API

#41

Post by n4r9 »

londons_explore wrote: post #37

They have a REST API for the stations... Great. But they also need a little WebUI for stations to manually update prices, since small stations won't have a programmer on staff to do this stuff.

According to this webpage you can do it by phone: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/report-your-fuel-prices-and-fore...

I wouldn't look forward to having to do that every time I changed prices!

I wonder how many small independent stations are there these days? Almost every one I see is either in a supermarket, a big chain like Esso, or a smaller chain like Harvest.

Re: UK government launches fuel forecourt price API

#42

Post by entuno »

maffyoo wrote: post #34
entuno wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I almost never go out of my way for fuel, because as you say, it's rarely worth it once you factor in your time (never mind the fuel spent). But it's still useful to know about price variation so that you can plan ahead. I regularly drive past several different petrol stations, and if I know that one of them is usually cheaper or usually more expensive then I choose to use or avoid it, or to decide that I'll fill up…

totally agree, technology could make this much more cost effective (or time effective). what's the best use of my time versus the cheaper option.. It's interesting running the numbers though. e.g. if it only take 10 minutes to get cheaper fuel, how much cheaper does it need to be for your time to be worth more than the UK minimum wage (£12.21 for adults over 21) based on my maths (from above calculations) it needs to…

Also depends on the size of your fuel tank and how full it already is. The time taken to refuel is (almost) the same regardless, but if you've got a 40l fuel tank vs a 70l one or you're only half-empty then it's going to be less worthwhile.

7p cheaper for 10 minutes works out at about minimum wage if you're buying 30 litres, but with a bigger car you could easily be buying twice that, which works out much better.

Although of course you also need to factor in how much fuel you burn driving to the cheaper place, and the extra wear and depreciation on the car. If you take the HMRC standard rate of 45p/mile (which was meant to cover all of that kind of thing, but hasn't been updated for years) then even going a few miles out of your way quickly ends up costing more than it's likely to save.

Re: UK government launches fuel forecourt price API

#43

Post by embedding-shape »

alias_neo wrote: post #35
embedding-shape wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't made any calculations, and it's more a hunch, but considering you usually need to remove hundreds of KG in order to make an impact on how much fuel is being spent, 40-50L of gas (~40KG difference between full and empty maybe?) would have an marginal effect on how much fuel is spent to carry a full tank vs 10% filled tank. Besides, with a smaller tank, you'll make more trips to tank it, and also have less ch…

> doesn't the fuel pump use fuel itself as a coolant or something I know very little about these things, but my understanding was always that any form of liquid pump uses the liquid itself as coolant to some extent.

Yeah, fair enough, I think what he mentioned though, wasn't just about fuel going through the pump being used as coolant, but some extra process that only happens when you're not running below say 10% or whatever, an extra cooling process that only runs when you're not low on fuel. Maybe I misunderstood him though and it's just about the liquid passing through.

Re: UK government launches fuel forecourt price API

#44

Post by fragmede »

oniony wrote: post #18
maffyoo wrote: post #12

When see things like this, I always think of the Chinese proverb "An inch of time is worth an inch of gold, but it is hard to buy one inch of time with one inch of gold" Which always says to me that its not worth it just use the quickest option Take the example drcongo posted: "Yesterday I had to drive to a nearby town, just 20 minutes away, and noticed that every single petrol station there was a good 5p per litre c…

I've also wondered about whether to fully fill my tank or drive on a small amount so that I'm not using fuel to carry fuel. Do you know of any metrics on that?

Unless you're driving a lorry with a 120L tank, it's negligible. We're talking like, 100 mL per 100km.

Re: UK government launches fuel forecourt price API

#45

Post by Nextgrid »

bitdivision wrote: post #16
Nextgrid wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess the question is how will it be enforced and what would the penalties be for reporting inaccurate or outdated data? Companies do not understand "must" unless it's accompanied by a proven threat of sanctions that outweighs the profits made by breaching the regulation. The GDPR is a good example of plenty of "musts" and theoretical fines but lax enforcement means it's always more profitable to breach it than com…

Some vague info here: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/fuel-finder-enfor...

Thanks.

Looking at that document, this regulation is dead on arrival. Enforcement is contingent on the aggregator noticing the price discrepancy, giving the seller many opportunities to rectify the situation without a penalty (if we assume every step gives them 30 days to respond, we're looking at ~5 months before a financial penalty becomes possible), and even then, the regulatory "may" impose a financial penalty, meaning it isn't even guaranteed.

You know what would immediately resolve this problem and prevent non-compliance? A reporting system where any citizen can submit evidence of a price discrepancy and upon validation gets a 1k payout from the government who then recovers it via a fine. This would make it sustainable for anyone to act as an "auditor" or even do this as a business.

Of course, the reason it isn't done this way is because it would be too effective, where as this current iteration gives the appearance that something is being done while having no impact in practice.

Re: UK government launches fuel forecourt price API

#46

Post by tialaramex »

maffyoo wrote: post #12

When see things like this, I always think of the Chinese proverb "An inch of time is worth an inch of gold, but it is hard to buy one inch of time with one inch of gold" Which always says to me that its not worth it just use the quickest option Take the example drcongo posted: "Yesterday I had to drive to a nearby town, just 20 minutes away, and noticed that every single petrol station there was a good 5p per litre c…

If your priority is the journey to fill a car with fuel and time spent doing so, surely just buy a Battery Electric Vehicle and then this problem evaporates because it just plugs in like every other appliance you own rather than needing a trip to a fuel station.

Shopping around for the fuel of an EV you can do from a web browser, oh hey, Octopus have a good deal for night charging, click click done.

Re: UK government launches fuel forecourt price API

#47

Post by gerjomarty »

This is a great innovation and I'm sure in time it'll become a useful source of information. There are some edge cases of course.

If you live on the Irish border, you'll have a choice between getting your petrol on the UK side, or the Irish side. For about 20 years, petrol was cheaper on the Irish side, causing a bunch of petrol stations to spring up just over the border, attracting drivers from the other side with cheap prices and good exchange rates.

In the last 10 years or so, the position has reversed. Petrol is now roughly cheaper on the UK side of the border, or at least not worth making a special trip for.

There's even a petrol station in Belleek mentioned here[1] that straddles the border and apparently has or had pumps on both sides.

[1]: https://www.impartialreporter.com/news/25653110.border-filli...

Re: UK government launches fuel forecourt price API

#49

Post by alias_neo »

embedding-shape wrote: post #43
alias_neo wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> doesn't the fuel pump use fuel itself as a coolant or something I know very little about these things, but my understanding was always that any form of liquid pump uses the liquid itself as coolant to some extent.

Yeah, fair enough, I think what he mentioned though, wasn't just about fuel going through the pump being used as coolant, but some extra process that only happens when you're not running below say 10% or whatever, an extra cooling process that only runs when you're not low on fuel. Maybe I misunderstood him though and it's just about the liquid passing through.

I think the fuel passing through is the only method that could be used to cool, the volume of fuel required is presumably constant, regardless of how much fuel you have left, so the amount passing through the pump should be the same until you run out.

On a related note, my car has a fuel heater, to pre-heat the Diesel before it hits the engine, I assume this is typical in modern cars, but using the fuel as a coolant would presumably contribute positively to this desire for warmer fuel entering the cylinders.

Re: UK government launches fuel forecourt price API

#50

Post by MilaM »

maffyoo wrote: post #12

When see things like this, I always think of the Chinese proverb "An inch of time is worth an inch of gold, but it is hard to buy one inch of time with one inch of gold" Which always says to me that its not worth it just use the quickest option Take the example drcongo posted: "Yesterday I had to drive to a nearby town, just 20 minutes away, and noticed that every single petrol station there was a good 5p per litre c…

Driving 40 minutes to save 5p might not be worth it. What does make more sense (at least where I live) is to go to the petrol station in the late afternoon or evening instead of the morning hours. The intraday price span on most regular fuels is usually 10 Euro cents per liter. Weekends also tend to be cheaper.
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