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Oregon gave homeless youth $1k/month with no strings

oregonlive.com

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Re: Oregon gave homeless youth $1k/month with no strings

#41

Post by yunnpp »

jmward01 wrote: post #34
gameman144 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also wild just how cost-effective interventions like this can be. You can pay a thousand here and there, or a few hundred thousand incarcerating these people when they turn to crime out of desperation.

Totally agree. I don't want to pay taxes that go to social programs but the reality is if we don't find effective policies I end up paying more in taxes for emergency treatment and society take major economic hits for the other secondary problems, like crime, that homelessness causes. Of course the other argument for this is that society clearly has a hand in the path that took these people to where they are at now s…

You don't want to pay taxes for social programs as opposed to...what? Military and defense spending? What is there better than a social program?

Re: Oregon gave homeless youth $1k/month with no strings

#42

Post by yunnpp »

solid_fuel wrote: post #26
gtowey wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> “Just one year after completing (the program), I’m in my own place, halfway through a business degree, focused on building a stable, secure foundation for my daughter and myself, and working toward becoming a nonprofit leader who supports her community.” I know, right? She did all that just so she could give her social workers the feedback they wanted to hear! Those liberals are so dastardly!

Those sneaky freeloaders, materially improving their lives and futures just to “prove” that social programs work.

And then they went back to homelessness. Those social workers running the survey won't even notice how poisoned the data set is.

Re: Oregon gave homeless youth $1k/month with no strings

#43

Post by Zigurd »

gameman144 wrote: post #6
slater wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, couldn't possibly be that there were any actually good results coming from this. That's just an impossibility.

I don't think the parent is even saying that, their point is pretty reasonable: having some objective measure for before and after in any study is more reliable than self-reporting, especially when the subject might be incentivized to lie. The self reports might be totally true, but the study isn't as good as it might be.

TBF the welfare queen trope is well trodden ground. I'm actually surprised to see it brought up more than once in a supposedly sophisticated forum.

Re: Oregon gave homeless youth $1k/month with no strings

#44

Post by iamrobertismo »

jmward01 wrote: post #34
gameman144 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also wild just how cost-effective interventions like this can be. You can pay a thousand here and there, or a few hundred thousand incarcerating these people when they turn to crime out of desperation.

Totally agree. I don't want to pay taxes that go to social programs but the reality is if we don't find effective policies I end up paying more in taxes for emergency treatment and society take major economic hits for the other secondary problems, like crime, that homelessness causes. Of course the other argument for this is that society clearly has a hand in the path that took these people to where they are at now s…

> I don't want to pay taxes that go to social programs

This is such awild thing to say. What do you think the point of society is? Also, there is no way you "Totally agree" if at the same time you are saying this.

Also if you understand the cost of incarceration and the negative social ills of poverty, then being against social programs, broadly, makes no sense.

Re: Oregon gave homeless youth $1k/month with no strings

#45

Post by [deleted] »

iamrobertismo wrote: post #44
jmward01 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Totally agree. I don't want to pay taxes that go to social programs but the reality is if we don't find effective policies I end up paying more in taxes for emergency treatment and society take major economic hits for the other secondary problems, like crime, that homelessness causes. Of course the other argument for this is that society clearly has a hand in the path that took these people to where they are at now s…

> I don't want to pay taxes that go to social programs This is such awild thing to say. What do you think the point of society is? Also, there is no way you "Totally agree" if at the same time you are saying this. Also if you understand the cost of incarceration and the negative social ills of poverty, then being against social programs, broadly, makes no sense.

[deleted]

Re: Oregon gave homeless youth $1k/month with no strings

#46

Post by soco »

jmward01 wrote: post #34
gameman144 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also wild just how cost-effective interventions like this can be. You can pay a thousand here and there, or a few hundred thousand incarcerating these people when they turn to crime out of desperation.

Totally agree. I don't want to pay taxes that go to social programs but the reality is if we don't find effective policies I end up paying more in taxes for emergency treatment and society take major economic hits for the other secondary problems, like crime, that homelessness causes. Of course the other argument for this is that society clearly has a hand in the path that took these people to where they are at now s…

I'd be happy to pay taxes going to social programs also for my own benefit: not only as a form of insurance, but for getting a more pleasant day to day experience - like not having to step over homeless, less insecurity in darker areas, not having to live imprisoned in gated communities, and so on. A man can dream...

Re: Oregon gave homeless youth $1k/month with no strings

#47

Post by jmward01 »

yunnpp wrote: post #41
jmward01 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Totally agree. I don't want to pay taxes that go to social programs but the reality is if we don't find effective policies I end up paying more in taxes for emergency treatment and society take major economic hits for the other secondary problems, like crime, that homelessness causes. Of course the other argument for this is that society clearly has a hand in the path that took these people to where they are at now s…

You don't want to pay taxes for social programs as opposed to...what? Military and defense spending? What is there better than a social program?

There are several reactions to the 'I don't want to pay taxes' so I'll pick this one and respond. I hope you read the rest of the comment. I don't want to pay taxes because who does? Ever? But we -need- to pay taxes for programs that work because the alternative, massive social costs and damage to society, are far worse. So, sure, I don't want to pay taxes for social programs but I admit the need to and therefore I want the most effective, evidence based programs we can find. We need value for the effort and that involves doing research to figure that value out. If a program like this efficiently reduces the problems associated with homelessness I am all for it.

As to what I would actually want to pay taxes for it is to build new things and achieve new things as a society. I never want to spend money on 'fixing', it is needed, it has to happen, but that doesn't mean I have to like it. Building new things however I am 100% for. Get us to space. Find new particles. Help foster the arts. That is what I want my taxes to go for. So, yes, fund things like this if it is effective because we have to but you won't get me to say I want to spend money one this.

Re: Oregon gave homeless youth $1k/month with no strings

#48

Post by qingcharles »

gameman144 wrote: post #9
Antibabelic wrote: post #4

Libertarians who want the impoverished to "pull themselves up by their bootstraps" don't realize what that takes. Nobody deserves to live without a home. We need successes like these so that as many people as possible can get assistance.

It's also wild just how cost-effective interventions like this can be. You can pay a thousand here and there, or a few hundred thousand incarcerating these people when they turn to crime out of desperation.

We're paying ~$50K for every person that's incarcerated, BUT nobody takes into account the income we're losing from their taxes and spending if they were living a sane life in the free world.

It is exceptionally difficult to move people from a life of crime and addiction back into society, though. And I have insane respect for the people that do it full time. I've worked in that space and it's a world of absolute unending chaos.

Re: Oregon gave homeless youth $1k/month with no strings

#49

Post by johnny22 »

yunnpp wrote: post #41
jmward01 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Totally agree. I don't want to pay taxes that go to social programs but the reality is if we don't find effective policies I end up paying more in taxes for emergency treatment and society take major economic hits for the other secondary problems, like crime, that homelessness causes. Of course the other argument for this is that society clearly has a hand in the path that took these people to where they are at now s…

You don't want to pay taxes for social programs as opposed to...what? Military and defense spending? What is there better than a social program?

The the whole thing can be summed up as "Paying taxes sucks, but if paying the taxes saves more money down then line, then we should do it"

Re: Oregon gave homeless youth $1k/month with no strings

#50

Post by lux-lux-lux »

qingcharles wrote: post #48
gameman144 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also wild just how cost-effective interventions like this can be. You can pay a thousand here and there, or a few hundred thousand incarcerating these people when they turn to crime out of desperation.

We're paying ~$50K for every person that's incarcerated, BUT nobody takes into account the income we're losing from their taxes and spending if they were living a sane life in the free world. It is exceptionally difficult to move people from a life of crime and addiction back into society, though. And I have insane respect for the people that do it full time. I've worked in that space and it's a world of absolute une…

It’s exceptionally difficult because we largely do not try; recidivism rates in the US are multiples of other countries.
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