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Pretty soon, heat pumps will be able to store and distribute heat as needed

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Re: Pretty soon, heat pumps will be able to store and distribute heat as needed

#41

Post by lm28469 »

direwolf20 wrote: post #37
cucumber3732842 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that 2-3x before or after the plumber marks it up? What an exceptionally moronic thing to ban, the market solves this naturally. Resistance heaters are 100% efficient whatever fraction of the year is heating days. So if that's 1/2 the year and the water heater can't last 16yr because of water quality the heat pump heater will never pay you back. This reminds me a lot of the time some jerks in west coast desert sta…

Is the heat pump heater taking heat from inside or outside the house?

Depends on the model, but a lot use the air from their own room, that's why they can't be installed in small rooms. Models pulling the heat from outside are more expensive and require more labor obviously, and they don't make a lot of sense for places that are bellow 0c multiple month a year as the COP will drop to 1.x and you will most likely need extra electricity for the anti frost cycles

Re: Pretty soon, heat pumps will be able to store and distribute heat as needed

#42

Post by lm28469 »

amazingman wrote: post #19
hnburnsy wrote: post #12

Related, TIL the US is effectively banning residential electric resistance water heaters in 2029, with heat pump water heaters being the only type that can meet the new standards. Users will see a 2-3x in cost difference and a 3 to 8 year payback on savings.

This is exactly the kind of thing government is for, even though it's missing the other half: subsidies. At the very least buying heat pumps for the next 5 years should be tax deductible. Even better: a $2000 or similar rebate.

> even though it's missing the other half: subsidies

It's a double edged sword. In my country everyone bought pellet stoves because of the subsidies, hundreds of companies popped up, now that the subsidies have been phased out, 90% of the companies went down, with their support and warranties of course. The 10% that managed to survive increased their prices, which is easy to do once 90% of your competitors went bust

People who thought they'd save money by having the government (their taxes really) pay the bill are waking up 5 years later with expensive maintenance, the first units are starting to fail and need to be replaced but they can't afford it without the 50%+ subsidies. Not to mention that the prices pellets goes up and down faster than your average shitcoin.

Re: Pretty soon, heat pumps will be able to store and distribute heat as needed

#44

Post by burnt-resistor »

Private equity / Wall St. megacorps want to sell you complex systems that are fragile, unaffordable by the 99%, have short warranty periods, wear out quickly, require cloud logins and proprietary maintenance parts, and are mandated by law.

GFL buying a simple resistive-heated clothes dryer, furnace, or tanked/tankless water heater in 2030.

Re: Pretty soon, heat pumps will be able to store and distribute heat as needed

#45

Post by burnt-resistor »

animal531 wrote: post #43

Where I live we need a way to store and distribute cold as needed.

Stanford's cogen plant has an underground "ice cube" for campus/municipal chilled water infrastructure. Perhaps scaling something like that makes sense or perhaps to use an absorption heat pump (AHP) that can operate like and the reverse of an Einstein–Szilard refrigerator?

Re: Pretty soon, heat pumps will be able to store and distribute heat as needed

#46

Post by quickthrowman »

sgc wrote: post #26
hnburnsy wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heat pump water heater (hybrid/HPWH, e.g., 50–65 gallon equivalent): Unit prices range from ~$1,500–$3,000+ (most common models $2,000–$2,500), with total installed costs $2,500–$5,000 (higher if electrical upgrades or space mods needed). Average retrofit/install often lands around $3,000–$4,000.

Electrical upgrades are almost always required, and price is more like 7k-9k around here. It's going to be seriously painful for a lot of people.

If you currently have an electric resistive water heater, a heat pump water heater with the same heating capacity will use 3-4x less power, which means you can use a much smaller circuit.

A 6kW 240V EWH uses 25A, it’ll need #8 wire and a 35A or 40A breaker.

An equivalent HPHW would use 1.5kW at 240V, or 6.25A. You can use #14s and a 15A breaker.

Re: Pretty soon, heat pumps will be able to store and distribute heat as needed

#47

Post by rayiner »

amazingman wrote: post #19
hnburnsy wrote: post #12

Related, TIL the US is effectively banning residential electric resistance water heaters in 2029, with heat pump water heaters being the only type that can meet the new standards. Users will see a 2-3x in cost difference and a 3 to 8 year payback on savings.

This is exactly the kind of thing government is for, even though it's missing the other half: subsidies. At the very least buying heat pumps for the next 5 years should be tax deductible. Even better: a $2000 or similar rebate.

The subsidies and rebates are a scam. The installers just jack up the prices until they capture the entire value of the rebate.

Re: Pretty soon, heat pumps will be able to store and distribute heat as needed

#48

Post by beAbU »

cucumber3732842 wrote: post #15
hnburnsy wrote: post #12

Related, TIL the US is effectively banning residential electric resistance water heaters in 2029, with heat pump water heaters being the only type that can meet the new standards. Users will see a 2-3x in cost difference and a 3 to 8 year payback on savings.

Is that 2-3x before or after the plumber marks it up? What an exceptionally moronic thing to ban, the market solves this naturally. Resistance heaters are 100% efficient whatever fraction of the year is heating days. So if that's 1/2 the year and the water heater can't last 16yr because of water quality the heat pump heater will never pay you back. This reminds me a lot of the time some jerks in west coast desert sta…

Heat pumps are effectively more than 100% efficient fyi. You put 1000W of electricity in, you get 2500W of heat going into the water. (Numbers are only illustrative)

Running cost of heat pumps for heating is much much lower than resistive heating.

Re: Pretty soon, heat pumps will be able to store and distribute heat as needed

#49

Post by DangitBobby »

hnburnsy wrote: post #23
DangitBobby wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's probably exactly what will happen. Energy property - Heat pumps and biomass stoves and boilers Heat pumps that meet or exceed the CEE highest efficiency tier, not including any advanced tier, in effect at the beginning of the year when the property is installed, and biomass stoves and boilers with a thermal efficiency rating of at least 75% qualify for a credit up to $2,000 per year. Costs may include labor fo…

These are credits that only work if you have owe federal taxes and they cannot be carried forward. I've seen estimates that 40-45% of taxpayers owe 0 or close to 0.

You can also get considerable rebates if your state participates in the "Inflation Reduction Act Home Energy Rebate Program", especially if you are low income. My state is still working on rolling it out but hopefully many people who can't use tax credits will be able to take advantage.

https://www.tn.gov/environment/program-areas/energy/state-en...

Re: Pretty soon, heat pumps will be able to store and distribute heat as needed

#50

Post by vee-kay »

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #30
chickenbig wrote: post #28

Perhaps I am missing something; this product already exists as the Sunamp Thermino. https://sunamp.com/en-gb/hot-water-solutions-thermino-range/

It also exists, as described in the headline, as a tank of heated water. The phase change stuff has positives like taking up less physical space but it's also a much less mature tech than storing hot water.

You are right in your analogy.

Earth's oceans and seas act as giant heat sinks.

And that means more trouble as global climate change impacts..

https://www.earth.com/news/ocean-warming-broke-records-for-4...

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