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High-Altitude Adventure with a DIY Pico Balloon

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Re: High-Altitude Adventure with a DIY Pico Balloon

#41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do they do WSPR on HF and not 2.4GHz? What's the important part that defines what kind of range you can get?

WSPR on HF makes sense down here on the surface of the planet because certain ranges of frequencies (not the same range always, but generally always within HF) can bounce off of upper atmosphere layers and pinball back and forth to get signals to someone or from someone who couldn't be seen line-of-sight because of the curvature of the Earth. For line of sight work, the 2.4GHz in theory would work as well as anything…

Yeah, our baloon was recorded by WSPR eeceivers thousands of kilometers away when it crossed the arctic circle for a day - we wpuld have no data if it were dependent on line of sight or even just flying over inhabited territory.

And indeed, the relions take minures to send a couple dozen bits of data. But the modulation is done in such a clever way, that it does not really matter - you know ehere the probe with your callsign was, how high, ground speed, temperature and panel volatage. There is quite agressive heuristics applied (eg. different precision for different altitudes as you don't really expect it to stay low for any ammount of time and survive, position via grid squares with course position still available even if you have incomplete data from a relation) so the few dozen bits are enough. :)

It is all super clever and hats off for those who developed this system. :)

Re: High-Altitude Adventure with a DIY Pico Balloon

#42
post #5

This sounds so cool! > I’m a little puzzled about the balloons’ telemetry messages received on the WSPR network, as they have been few and far between. But wouldn't there be a way to send messages to Starlink satellites instead of WSPR? Is it a problem of power consumption? (It would be great to be able to transmit images, not just GPS pings).

Starlink is totally oit of picobaloon range by orders of magnitude - we are talking hundreds of mW at most.

At the same time it is true the board (rpi pico usually) could totally support a camera or other high bandwidth instruments - it just does not have the bandwidth to send the data over wspr, possibly with the exception of some flags based on local processing.

AFAIK some poeple have built dual APRS & WSPR pico baloons, but you will still get pictures back only over populated areas due to APRS having in general much shorter range than WSPR.

Re: High-Altitude Adventure with a DIY Pico Balloon

#43
I’ve been working on a hobby project to send a Raspberry Pi into the stratosphere (nothing really novel) but with all custom software. The entire process, hardware, and stack is documented on the GitHub [1]. Essentially all the software and major components are purchased. I’m just waiting for the spring and then start some tests with balloons, helium mixtures, and iron out any regulatory issues. If this interest you or you have any experience would love help or contributions. The launch will happen in Tennessee.

[1] https://github.com/stratopi-org/stratopi

Re: High-Altitude Adventure with a DIY Pico Balloon

#44

I wish the regulations around HAB were not so lighter-than-air gas centric. Hot air balloons are much more accessible, especially solar heated hot air balllons. But they have much less lift per volume and so the FAA FAR 101 rules basically say they all have to be treated as the type where you inform the FAA beforehand and then every hour about their position among other things. https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-14/c…

FAA wants you to use hydrogen. >roll safe<

Okay, though, for very small hobbyist payloads, though, wouldn't hydrogen balloons be feasible?

Some quick math tells me that you can lift approximately a kilogram of mass per cubic meter (at sea level, anyway). If your balloon's full weight is a half of a kilogram, you'd only need about a large beach ball filled with hydrogen to lift it. That seems like something that would be attainable for an outdoor DIY electrolysis setup.

Re: High-Altitude Adventure with a DIY Pico Balloon

#45

I wonder what your liability would be in the event your balloon were to be struck by a commercial aircraft and cause injury to the flight crew or passengers? https://komonews.com/news/local/weather-balloon-launched-in-...

Jet engines are tested for this. They basically can shoot (not only throwing!) entire frozen chicken cadavers into engines with zero damage. The only way they managed break the entire engine was to place little explosives on the turbine wings. Even that didn't cause a fatal disintegration of the jet engine. Somewhere on YT there's a super entertaining video from a test facility.

Well first, the linked article was regarding a weather balloon that impacted the windscreen, not the engine, and it did cause an injury to the flight crew. Here are pictures of the bloody, glass-shard filled flight deck. https://www.facebook.com/aviation247/posts/n17327-united-air... So the hazard is real.

Now back to your uninformed comment. I do certification testing of jet engines, and we most certainly DO NOT test jet engines against the ingestion of airborne electronics.

I have personally loaded and fired the five barrel bird gun at General Electric’s Peebles Test operation many times over the years. We use a range of birds and bird simulators, but none of them are ever chickens, and none of them are frozen.

There is not any requirement for zero engine damage. Little sparrows will do no damage. Ducks and geese cause extensive damage every single time. Extensive engine damage is permitted so long that the engine shuts down without causing catastrophic damage to the airframe. The specific damage that must be prevented, per 14 cfr 33.75, is below. Any other damage is acceptable.

(i) Non-containment of high-energy debris;

(ii) Concentration of toxic products in the engine bleed air intended for the cabin sufficient to incapacitate crew or passengers;

(iii) Significant thrust in the opposite direction to that commanded by the pilot;

(iv) Uncontrolled fire;

(v) Failure of the engine mount system leading to inadvertent engine separation;

(vi) Release of the propeller by the engine, if applicable; and

(vii) Complete inability to shut the engine down.

https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-14/chapter-I/subchapter-C...

Re: High-Altitude Adventure with a DIY Pico Balloon

#47
Isn't H2 better because better lift and being a molecule of two hydrogen atoms it is not quite as slippery as helium and quite easy to make?

From wikipedia "lifting gas"

"Helium is the second lightest gas (0.1786 g/L, 14% the density of air, at STP). For that reason, it is an attractive gas for lifting as well.

A major advantage is that this gas is noncombustible. But the use of helium has some disadvantages, too:

    The diffusion issue shared with hydrogen (though, as helium's molecular radius, 138 pm, is smaller, it diffuses through more materials than hydrogen[4])."

Re: High-Altitude Adventure with a DIY Pico Balloon

#48

Isn't H2 better because better lift and being a molecule of two hydrogen atoms it is not quite as slippery as helium and quite easy to make? From wikipedia "lifting gas" "Helium is the second lightest gas (0.1786 g/L, 14% the density of air, at STP). For that reason, it is an attractive gas for lifting as well. A major advantage is that this gas is noncombustible. But the use of helium has some disadvantages, too: Th…

and at this scale it seems like the hazards of h2 would be pretty minor. You're not exactly going to have a Hindenburg situation with only a couple dozen liters of H2.

Re: High-Altitude Adventure with a DIY Pico Balloon

#49
post #48

Isn't H2 better because better lift and being a molecule of two hydrogen atoms it is not quite as slippery as helium and quite easy to make? From wikipedia "lifting gas" "Helium is the second lightest gas (0.1786 g/L, 14% the density of air, at STP). For that reason, it is an attractive gas for lifting as well. A major advantage is that this gas is noncombustible. But the use of helium has some disadvantages, too: Th…

and at this scale it seems like the hazards of h2 would be pretty minor. You're not exactly going to have a Hindenburg situation with only a couple dozen liters of H2.

No but you might get serverely hearing impaired..

Re: High-Altitude Adventure with a DIY Pico Balloon

#50

Isn't H2 better because better lift and being a molecule of two hydrogen atoms it is not quite as slippery as helium and quite easy to make? From wikipedia "lifting gas" "Helium is the second lightest gas (0.1786 g/L, 14% the density of air, at STP). For that reason, it is an attractive gas for lifting as well. A major advantage is that this gas is noncombustible. But the use of helium has some disadvantages, too: Th…

It really seems like there is no downside to this, other than the minuscule risk of a low-altitude puncture + spark causing a fire, and even there the exposure is small because the amount of hydrogen gas is so much small.

Not to mention that hydrogen is free for anyone who has water and a power source.

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