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US judge rules Luigi Mangione won't face death penalty in CEO killing case

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Re: US judge rules Luigi Mangione won't face death penalty in CEO killing case

#41

Post by lkbm »

wakawaka28 wrote: post #32
rahimnathwani wrote: post #7

The article doesn't explain clearly why, even though no one seems to be disputing the murder, the murder charge is being dismissed. It's because of jurisdiction. Normally, only states have jurisdiction over murders. The feds can charge murder if and only if the murder is connected to some other federal "crime of violence" (e.g. killing a federal official, murder-for-hire across state lines). Here, the federal 'hook'…

How about premeditated murder? Stalking is part of the premeditation, presumably. I think this technical argument/decision reeks of politics. Nearly all US murders take place in some state or another so they need to have federal prosecution potential.

> Nearly all US murders take place in some state or another so they need to have federal prosecution potential.

What do you mean here? They usually get prosecuted by the state.

Because NY state law doesn't allow for the death penalty, and the federal government wanted the death penalty, they intentionally moved it to a federal jurisdiction.

There's a Twitter thread[0] that seems like a reasonable explanation.

[0] https://x.com/adamscochran/status/2017284770158485767 / https://xcancel.com/adamscochran/status/2017284770158485767

Re: US judge rules Luigi Mangione won't face death penalty in CEO killing case

#42

Post by tekla »

wakawaka28 wrote: post #33
dragonwriter wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The article doesn't explain clearly why, even though no one seems to be disputing the murder, the murder charge is being dismissed. I mean, its literally being dismissed because the defendant successfully disputed the murder (as even a valid charge under the prosecutors own allegations.) He also, in the parallel state case which does not rely on the much narrower federal murder statute used in the federal case, is…

Does ANYONE doubt that this was a cold blooded and premeditated murder?

Looking at various tech and hacker chats/social media and adjacent? 100% yes.

I find it disgusting

Re: US judge rules Luigi Mangione won't face death penalty in CEO killing case

#43

Post by defrost »

rayiner wrote: post #21
defrost wrote: post #12

Attorney General Pam Bondi ordered Manhattan federal prosecutors last April to seek the death penalty against Mangione. ... Judge Margaret Garnett dismissed a federal murder charge that had enabled prosecutors to seek capital punishment, finding it technically flawed. ~ https://apnews.com/article/mangione-unitedhealthcare-death-p... How many gross errors of basic law and procedure has the current AG made and overseen…

You don’t seem to understand the legal issues here if you’re saying this was an “error of basic law.” What happened is that the feds took an aggressive but plausible legal position, and the district court disagreed. There are concurrent federal and state prosecutions. Ordinarily, murder is a state law charge. Some nexus to the federal government is required to elevate it to a federal crime. Here, New York doesn’t hav…

> You didn’t mention that Bondi was Florida’s AG for 8 years.

Fair point.

I honestly considered adding that but really didn't feel the need to drag her that much given Florida is the state that has Dr. Joseph Ladapo as surgeon general.

I also left out:

  U.S. District Judge Lorna Schofield’s ruling against acting U.S. Attorney John Sarcone III is the fifth time that judges have ruled that a top prosecutor appointed by Attorney General Pam Bondi was serving in the position unlawfully.
and other clangers.

Re: US judge rules Luigi Mangione won't face death penalty in CEO killing case

#44

Post by JumpCrisscross »

DANmode wrote: post #39
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why should either of them get the death penalty? Pardons. If he's pardoned there is a good chance he'll kill again. (And inspire copycats.) We need to eliminate pardons across our system of justice. Between Biden pardoning his son and Trump pardoning the J6'ers, there should be a bipartisan case for closing this.

or…if we’re at the point we need to neuter the power of the elected office, just randomly appoint people, and stop pretending what we’re doing is working.

> if we’re at the point we need to neuter the power of the elected office

Eliminating pardon power doesn’t neuter the Presidency or Governorships. The Romans didn’t even automatically grant the power to dictators.

Re: US judge rules Luigi Mangione won't face death penalty in CEO killing case

#45

Post by snypher »

tekla wrote: post #42
wakawaka28 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does ANYONE doubt that this was a cold blooded and premeditated murder?

Looking at various tech and hacker chats/social media and adjacent? 100% yes. I find it disgusting

I have big doubts it's this guy but that's what the trial is for.

Re: US judge rules Luigi Mangione won't face death penalty in CEO killing case

#46

Post by DANmode »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #44
DANmode wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

or…if we’re at the point we need to neuter the power of the elected office, just randomly appoint people, and stop pretending what we’re doing is working.

> if we’re at the point we need to neuter the power of the elected office Eliminating pardon power doesn’t neuter the Presidency or Governorships. The Romans didn’t even automatically grant the power to dictators .

“begin neutering”, then.

Not arguing for the pardon power - just demanding better leadership.

Re: US judge rules Luigi Mangione won't face death penalty in CEO killing case

#47

Post by toomuchtodo »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #34
toomuchtodo wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

$1.4M defense fund (so far), exceptional legal team, jury nullification, lots of paths to success. His case is going well so far, and appeals are always an option. “Proof beyond a reasonable doubt” is the bar. How confident are you there isn’t at least one juror who hasn’t been harmed by their health insurance, financially or medically? Only takes one.

> How confident are you there isn’t at least one juror who hasn’t been harmed by their health insurance, financially or medically? Who doesn't perjor themselves during voir dire , thereby triggering a mistrial? Pretty confident. Maybe he gets lucky in federal court because Bondi is an idiot. But the state charges are solid, and New York isn't Reddit.

I’ll bet you a bottle of a beverage you enjoy. Let me know.

Laws are just loose rules we sometimes collectively adhere to, people are mostly emotion driven. Sometimes the law matters, but sometimes not.

Re: US judge rules Luigi Mangione won't face death penalty in CEO killing case

#48

Post by jacquesm »

defrost wrote: post #28
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Source?

PBS News Hour, Question and response: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPK41OPq6VY Such confidence. Even some brazen lies about following court orders sprinkled on top.

It's the kind of confidence that would normally lead to a jail term.

Re: US judge rules Luigi Mangione won't face death penalty in CEO killing case

#49

Post by rayiner »

defrost wrote: post #43
rayiner wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don’t seem to understand the legal issues here if you’re saying this was an “error of basic law.” What happened is that the feds took an aggressive but plausible legal position, and the district court disagreed. There are concurrent federal and state prosecutions. Ordinarily, murder is a state law charge. Some nexus to the federal government is required to elevate it to a federal crime. Here, New York doesn’t hav…

> You didn’t mention that Bondi was Florida’s AG for 8 years. Fair point. I honestly considered adding that but really didn't feel the need to drag her that much given Florida is the state that has Dr. Joseph Ladapo as surgeon general. I also left out: U.S. District Judge Lorna Schofield’s ruling against acting U.S. Attorney John Sarcone III is the fifth time that judges have ruled that a top prosecutor appointed by…

Administrations wrangling to work around delays in Senate confirmation is hardly unusual: https://www.govexec.com/management/2023/02/3-biden-officials...

Vacancy Act litigation is just a part of dealing with changes in administrations these days: https://www.acslaw.org/expertforum/the-vacancies-act-a-prece...

Re: US judge rules Luigi Mangione won't face death penalty in CEO killing case

#50

Post by burnt-resistor »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #6
rolph wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

no they dont say why, not here. apparently the cops acted like the 4th didnt exist, so the backpack contents were disqualified as evidence. federal stalking charges have stuck so now life in prison is on the table.

He’s going to walk.

Only if he has $2M and mentions how much he loves red hats.
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