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Exploring Different Keyboard Sensing Technologies

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Re: Exploring Different Keyboard Sensing Technologies

#41

Post by reedlaw »

riskable wrote: post #35
reedlaw wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you give examples of excellent typing keyboards from China for $30-50? Every mechanical keyboard I've owned eventually suffered from key chatter or inconsistent actuation.

Just get a hall effect or TMR keyboard and all your problems with key chatter will go away. Also, I recommend you just build it yourself. It's a fun hobby and if you don't know how to make PCBs it's a great way to learn (keyboards are one of the easiest things to make from a PCB complexity standpoint). Ever play "connect the dots" as a kid? That's what it's like making a keyboard PCB. It's the adult version of "conne…

From the article I like the characteristics of hall effect better than TMR (although one of the cons under HE, "Since the sensor is reading magnet position, any wobble in the switch can change the magnet’s alignment and affect the signal", is a bit troubling). There are indeed $30-50 ones on Amazon. Any particular brand recommendations?

Re: Exploring Different Keyboard Sensing Technologies

#42

Post by reedlaw »

arcologies1985 wrote: post #38
reedlaw wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you give examples of excellent typing keyboards from China for $30-50? Every mechanical keyboard I've owned eventually suffered from key chatter or inconsistent actuation.

If you notice these things at all, you are the target market for an analog keyboard.

Under the Cons section the article says:

> Full analog functionality often depends on proprietary software support (and not all boards execute it well).

Could you elaborate how that works? I'm on Linux. I find with Keychron I can visit the web-based tool to configure the keyboard, but if it's proprietary software I'm out of luck.

Re: Exploring Different Keyboard Sensing Technologies

#43

Post by dcminter »

SOTGO wrote: post #27
dcminter wrote: post #10

I don't know how their switches worked, but the Wang 2200 terminals¹ that my father worked with had an interesting angle on tactile feedback; on each keypress a single chunky solenoid attached to it physically moved to give a satisfying "chunk" noise and vibration. The idea presumably was to give solid mechanical feedback to professional typists used to the same from electromechanical typewriters throwing the type ar…

I can't say for sure about the Wang terminal keyboards, but what you're describing sounds a lot like a mechanism from some IBM Model B keyboards (usually called Beamsprings). I have an IBM 5251 keyboard that has a solenoid that hammers the side of the metal case whenever you type, and I've heard that it was added as users would have been used to typewriters and wanted to know for sure when they had registered a keypr…

So honestly I don't quite remember if I encountered this with the Wangs, or if I'm recalling my Dad telling me about it from his experiences.

If the latter then odds are that it was either a machine from Wang and in that case most likely the 2200, or otherwise it will have most probably been equipment associated with the Gamma 10 from De La Rue Bull, or possibly the Ferranti Pegasus - both of which I know he worked with.

Of course, he might have been telling me a third-party anecdote in which case it's possible the IBM Display Station was the machine in question.

That all said, last time I was discussing this with someone they mentioned that the 2200's terminal had a "solenoid" trace on its PCB so it's quite possible that this really was the relevant device. Last time I personally had hands on a live 2200 was about 1993 though, so I really can't be sure.

There's a chap in the Netherlands with a Wang 2200 museum - perhaps I should just write to him and ask :D

Re: Exploring Different Keyboard Sensing Technologies

#44

Post by skybrian »

I’m making my own switches for a musical instrument (the dimensions don’t work well for mechanical keyboard switches) and decided on capacitive sensing because it’s cheap on a per-switch basis. Making things with copper tape is annoying, though. Using the spring as the capacitive element sounds promising.

Has anyone else tried this?

Re: Exploring Different Keyboard Sensing Technologies

#45

Post by arcologies1985 »

reedlaw wrote: post #42
arcologies1985 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you notice these things at all, you are the target market for an analog keyboard.

Under the Cons section the article says: > Full analog functionality often depends on proprietary software support (and not all boards execute it well). Could you elaborate how that works? I'm on Linux. I find with Keychron I can visit the web-based tool to configure the keyboard, but if it's proprietary software I'm out of luck.

I use a Wooting which is largely open source on GitHub. Also their config tool is only needed to set up your keyboard, the config is saved onto the keyboard and persists across devices, OSes, etc.

Looks like their config software works on Linux if you set up udev to allow it to flash the keyboard: https://help.wooting.io/article/147-configuring-device-acces...

Re: Exploring Different Keyboard Sensing Technologies

#46

Post by BrittonR »

riskable wrote: post #32

The only thing I don't like about this article is it didn't talk about the actuation tech. It basically only showed switches with springs. My Void Switch design doesn't have springs at all! https://github.com/riskable/void_switch I'm typing on my AHEK-95 right now which has 95 Void Switches and a custom hall effect PCB (and custom firmware). It also has two custom analog rotary encoders (which is just a ring of six m…

Thanks for sharing, I’ll print this out to try. What’s the license in the pcb and switches?

Re: Exploring Different Keyboard Sensing Technologies

#47

Post by [deleted] »

reedlaw wrote: post #41
riskable wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just get a hall effect or TMR keyboard and all your problems with key chatter will go away. Also, I recommend you just build it yourself. It's a fun hobby and if you don't know how to make PCBs it's a great way to learn (keyboards are one of the easiest things to make from a PCB complexity standpoint). Ever play "connect the dots" as a kid? That's what it's like making a keyboard PCB. It's the adult version of "conne…

From the article I like the characteristics of hall effect better than TMR (although one of the cons under HE, "Since the sensor is reading magnet position, any wobble in the switch can change the magnet’s alignment and affect the signal", is a bit troubling). There are indeed $30-50 ones on Amazon. Any particular brand recommendations?

[deleted]

Re: Exploring Different Keyboard Sensing Technologies

#48

Post by t23414321 »

AlbertDenny wrote: post #20

This was a fun read. Hall effect switches especially feel like they came out of nowhere in the last couple years, but seeing them broken down like this makes the hype make more sense.

That's mostly copycats of Ben Heck approach from 2012 - some technical improvements, but like without understanding, further thinking about function - or imagination why someone needed it first, then what would be next. So all seems stuck for me, and not much than a bit a closer since then to what (and how) I want, starting from smoothly increasing the repeat rate with pressure for cursor keys or scrolling (but not to have few levels only to macro-simulate that, then OS's are used to not get such things right - High Resolution Scrolling https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSy9G6bNuKA 2024).

(* XBOX Controller Mods: Analog WASD Gaming Keyboard https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEwDImE0DU4 2012 *)

Re: Exploring Different Keyboard Sensing Technologies

#49

Post by chess_buster »

riskable wrote: post #32

The only thing I don't like about this article is it didn't talk about the actuation tech. It basically only showed switches with springs. My Void Switch design doesn't have springs at all! https://github.com/riskable/void_switch I'm typing on my AHEK-95 right now which has 95 Void Switches and a custom hall effect PCB (and custom firmware). It also has two custom analog rotary encoders (which is just a ring of six m…

We've printed your switches at my university, they feel really great. Now we need to build a full keyboard in order to try out the typing experience, when used inside a keyboard.

Do you think the PCB and typing assembly could be made curved, like the assembly of a Model F or M keyboard?

Re: Exploring Different Keyboard Sensing Technologies

#50

Post by riskable »

chess_buster wrote: post #49
riskable wrote: post #32

The only thing I don't like about this article is it didn't talk about the actuation tech. It basically only showed switches with springs. My Void Switch design doesn't have springs at all! https://github.com/riskable/void_switch I'm typing on my AHEK-95 right now which has 95 Void Switches and a custom hall effect PCB (and custom firmware). It also has two custom analog rotary encoders (which is just a ring of six m…

We've printed your switches at my university, they feel really great. Now we need to build a full keyboard in order to try out the typing experience, when used inside a keyboard. Do you think the PCB and typing assembly could be made curved, like the assembly of a Model F or M keyboard?

Yes, you can make PCBs that can flex a bit but for that you're much better off using Flex PCB and being clever about the frame.
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