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National Guard activated in Minneapolis after Border Patrol agent kills man

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Re: National Guard activated in Minneapolis after Border Patrol agent kills man

#41

Post by UncleMeat »

orionsbelt wrote: post #23
parrellel wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, the whole execution was recorded from at least 3 available angles. You could just check.

Well, from what I’ve seen, the most likely theory is that the agent who disarmed the man (after another agent had yelled “gun”) then accidentally discharged the weapon, which caused all the other ICE officers to freak out and discharge their weapons. I don’t want to argue over the broader questions; ie should ICE even be there and doing this; are they adequately trained; are they overly aggressive to tackle this guy…

> But the narrow story of this particular incident changes a lot if there was an accidental discharge that made the other offices believe he was shooting.

Does it? What you are describing is still a monstrous crime. The federal government is insisting that absolutely nothing went wrong and that Pretti was intending to massacre ICE agents. Even taking an enormously charitable reading of the killing I am still horrified by the actions of the government here.

Re: National Guard activated in Minneapolis after Border Patrol agent kills man

#42

Post by UncleMeat »

mcphage wrote: post #10
binarymax wrote: post #2

I’m not sure how many people realize this, but ICE is the buildup for trump to hold power by deploying soldiers ahead of time. I expect we will see them deployed at the election sites of democratic cities in November.

They’re failing to control a single mid-sized city, I’m not sure how they would maintain control over half the country. They don’t have the numbers, and are widely hated.

They don't need to maintain control. Elections are close and voters are geographically polarized.

Reduce turnout in cities in four or five swing states and that can be enough to flip an election. If you've got ICE just detaining random non-white people near polling places based on the theory put forward in Noem v Vasquez Perdomo, how many nonwhite citizens who would be solid voters for the democrats just decide to stay at home rather than go to the polls?

It is possible that this approach sparks a reaction and backfires. But I'm not sure that's a guarantee.

Re: National Guard activated in Minneapolis after Border Patrol agent kills man

#43

Post by throw0101c »

Vanit wrote: post #32

The American discourse around these killings are actually insane. In any other developed country it wouldn't be possible to escalate these situations like this regardless of what you were doing.

> The American discourse around these killings are actually insane.

The only insanity is in the defence of the killing(s).

On the most recent event, a reduced-speed video showing one agent (centre, bent over at beginning) removing the victim's firearm from his waistband, then a second agent (left) waiting for the first to get clear, and then pulling his pistol (video stops before any shooting):

* https://x.com/TheWarMonitor/status/2015272806636736647

* https://xcancel.com/TheWarMonitor/status/2015272806636736647

The actual shooting of the victim; view discretion advised:

* https://x.com/TheWarMonitor/status/2015335743443378660

* https://xcancel.com/TheWarMonitor/status/2015335743443378660

Re: National Guard activated in Minneapolis after Border Patrol agent kills man

#44

Post by ZeroGravitas »

mcphage wrote: post #20
binarymax wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The intention is disruption, they don’t care about control. They are disrupting lives in several cities.

They are disrupting lives, but elections? Imagine if the election was held today in Minneapolis, how do you think the vote would go? Would people be afraid to vote, or would it be the largest turnout the city has ever seen?

That's a blue state being targeted for revenge and for practice and so they can spin stories for their voters in other states. They'd probably target blue cities in swing states if they wanted to impact votes.

They have people who are experts in this. Before the latest wave of open fascism, many of the rising stars in the Republican party where people who were experts at removing people with Democrat sounding names off voter registration databases shortly before elections.

They have the data to target this effectively if they want to do it.

Re: National Guard activated in Minneapolis after Border Patrol agent kills man

#45

Post by mcphage »

UncleMeat wrote: post #42
mcphage wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They’re failing to control a single mid-sized city, I’m not sure how they would maintain control over half the country. They don’t have the numbers, and are widely hated.

They don't need to maintain control. Elections are close and voters are geographically polarized. Reduce turnout in cities in four or five swing states and that can be enough to flip an election. If you've got ICE just detaining random non-white people near polling places based on the theory put forward in Noem v Vasquez Perdomo, how many nonwhite citizens who would be solid voters for the democrats just decide to st…

> It is possible that this approach sparks a reaction and backfires.

Not only is that possible, but it is actively happing as we speak.

Re: National Guard activated in Minneapolis after Border Patrol agent kills man

#46

Post by mcphage »

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #44
mcphage wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are disrupting lives, but elections? Imagine if the election was held today in Minneapolis, how do you think the vote would go? Would people be afraid to vote, or would it be the largest turnout the city has ever seen?

That's a blue state being targeted for revenge and for practice and so they can spin stories for their voters in other states. They'd probably target blue cities in swing states if they wanted to impact votes. They have people who are experts in this. Before the latest wave of open fascism, many of the rising stars in the Republican party where people who were experts at removing people with Democrat sounding names o…

I agree that’s their plan. But that plan is currently failing, and it’s not looking like they’re learning anything from it.

Re: National Guard activated in Minneapolis after Border Patrol agent kills man

#47

Post by ZeroGravitas »

mcphage wrote: post #46
ZeroGravitas wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a blue state being targeted for revenge and for practice and so they can spin stories for their voters in other states. They'd probably target blue cities in swing states if they wanted to impact votes. They have people who are experts in this. Before the latest wave of open fascism, many of the rising stars in the Republican party where people who were experts at removing people with Democrat sounding names o…

I agree that’s their plan. But that plan is currently failing, and it’s not looking like they’re learning anything from it.

How is their plan failing?

Fox viewers are being told that violent terrorists are trying to murder ICE to protect criminal Somalis.

They have even better data on what lies resonate with their base to excuse the next killing.

How does this not advance their agenda?

Re: National Guard activated in Minneapolis after Border Patrol agent kills man

#48

Post by etyhhgfff »

Trasmatta wrote: post #21
binarymax wrote: post #2

I’m not sure how many people realize this, but ICE is the buildup for trump to hold power by deploying soldiers ahead of time. I expect we will see them deployed at the election sites of democratic cities in November.

The massive public outcry against ICE would likely cause that to backfire. Look at the extent of protesting in Minneapolis. People aren't afraid of ICE, putting them at polling stations would intensify the outrage against them, and fire up the opposition. They're

In an all out fight ICE vs We The People (with AR-15 + bump stocks), I bet everything on the people.

Re: National Guard activated in Minneapolis after Border Patrol agent kills man

#49

Post by mcphage »

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #47
mcphage wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that’s their plan. But that plan is currently failing, and it’s not looking like they’re learning anything from it.

How is their plan failing? Fox viewers are being told that violent terrorists are trying to murder ICE to protect criminal Somalis. They have even better data on what lies resonate with their base to excuse the next killing. How does this not advance their agenda?

Their plan is failing because their popularity numbers are dropping constantly, and they are convincing people to get out and organize and protest. Like, do you actually see any successes here? They’ve managed to turn “Abolish ICE” from a fringe left wing opinion, to the mainstream centrist position.

Like, I get that they’re doing this big show of force. But they’re losing. They are not accomplishing any of their goals, and the longer this goes on, the more the population is turning against them, and the less and less they will be able to accomplish their goals anywhere. Minnesota is not afraid of them, and they’re teaching the rest of the country not to fear them either.

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