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FOSS "just fork it" delusion

hamishcampbell.com

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Re: FOSS "just fork it" delusion

#41

Post by adaml_623 »

wpietri wrote: post #24
growse wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I rarely see good faith engagements being immediately shut down with "just fork it" (you'd never accept issues / MRs!). Instead it's usually used as a last resort when the "exploiter" doesn't get their way and starts whining about it. If a change is proposed that's completely counter to a community's stated values, then I guess "fork it" is a more appropriate immediate response, because it's hard to see how such a cl…

> Instead it's usually used as a last resort when the "exploiter" doesn't get their way I am not saying the phrase can't be used legitimately. Like the article's author, I just think it's often used in a way that isn't. Perhaps we're sampling from different areas of open-source culture, but when I think specifically of HN, I think just-fork-it style responses of the kind that the author is criticizing are common. > A…

You say "often used as a first resort to shut down criticism"

You're replying to a comment that says, "rarely see good faith engagements being immediately shut down with 'just fork it'"

They do seem to be clearly contradicting your point

Re: FOSS "just fork it" delusion

#43

Post by zozbot234 »

jeremyjh wrote: post #28
jamesbelchamber wrote: post #12

I think the wisdom of "just fork it" is that in a project the power lies with the people who do the work (yes, that power is often rented out in exchange for a pay cheque), and in an open source project you have the right to do that work without kowtowing to the authority of other people who did the work before you ("just fork it"). The important point lost in many of these anti-fork posts is that forks usually aren'…

Yes exactly. I've forked many a library to meet my own needs. Usually temporary, but not always. The fact that I can do this when I have to means I can use basically any library. The submitted post is written from the perspective of some kind of social network project. People saying "just fork it" in that perspective are clearly missing the bigger picture, hence the post. And the author of that post, didn't acknowled…

Social networks can fork while still being interoperable. That's what the whole federation thing is all about.

Re: FOSS "just fork it" delusion

#45

Post by Aurornis »

jamesbelchamber wrote: post #12

I think the wisdom of "just fork it" is that in a project the power lies with the people who do the work (yes, that power is often rented out in exchange for a pay cheque), and in an open source project you have the right to do that work without kowtowing to the authority of other people who did the work before you ("just fork it"). The important point lost in many of these anti-fork posts is that forks usually aren'…

> you have the right to do that work without kowtowing to the authority of other people who did the work before you ("just fork it").

> The important point lost in many of these anti-fork posts is that forks usually aren't hostile, and "just fork it" isn't usually a dismissal of people's input

In my experience, forking a semi-active project can often be viewed as hostile by the maintainers. Some of those maintainers may turn it into a holy war where they try to throw their weight around to push back on the fork. I’ve seen claims of “trying to stealing our project” to mobilizing users of their Discord to warn people to avoid the fork across Reddit and other social media.

It doesn’t always go that way, as you experienced with the project you forked. The situation you described is about as non-threatening as it gets, though, because you forked for a single client and you don’t want to become a maintainer of a new project.

Re: FOSS "just fork it" delusion

#46

Post by bookofsleepyjoe »

zozbot234 wrote: post #43
jeremyjh wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes exactly. I've forked many a library to meet my own needs. Usually temporary, but not always. The fact that I can do this when I have to means I can use basically any library. The submitted post is written from the perspective of some kind of social network project. People saying "just fork it" in that perspective are clearly missing the bigger picture, hence the post. And the author of that post, didn't acknowled…

Social networks can fork while still being interoperable. That's what the whole federation thing is all about.

[flagged]

Re: FOSS "just fork it" delusion

#47

Post by Aurornis »

jeremyjh wrote: post #28
jamesbelchamber wrote: post #12

I think the wisdom of "just fork it" is that in a project the power lies with the people who do the work (yes, that power is often rented out in exchange for a pay cheque), and in an open source project you have the right to do that work without kowtowing to the authority of other people who did the work before you ("just fork it"). The important point lost in many of these anti-fork posts is that forks usually aren'…

Yes exactly. I've forked many a library to meet my own needs. Usually temporary, but not always. The fact that I can do this when I have to means I can use basically any library. The submitted post is written from the perspective of some kind of social network project. People saying "just fork it" in that perspective are clearly missing the bigger picture, hence the post. And the author of that post, didn't acknowled…

> Yes exactly. I've forked many a library to meet my own needs. Usually temporary,

This isn’t really what the article is about. Doing a temporary fork for your own needs is equivalent to maintaining some personal patches.

The article is talking about running a forked project as an active fork that other people are using. That comes with the social overhead and community complications.

Re: FOSS "just fork it" delusion

#48

Post by lapcat »

boltzmann-brain wrote: post #30
lapcat wrote: post #18

Judging from the comments here, I think the article would be improved by discussing actual examples of the "just fork it" debate, because commenters seem to be reading different interpretations and different situations into this expression, and I'm not sure that's how the article author was interpreting it.

that would turn it into a witch hunt drama post. it's good that this sort of thing wasn't included.

> it's good that this sort of thing wasn't included.

Is it good that the article has inspired mostly "the author is wrong" comments, more so than even the usual for HN?

Re: FOSS "just fork it" delusion

#49

Post by Aurornis »

zozbot234 wrote: post #39
jamesbelchamber wrote: post #12

I think the wisdom of "just fork it" is that in a project the power lies with the people who do the work (yes, that power is often rented out in exchange for a pay cheque), and in an open source project you have the right to do that work without kowtowing to the authority of other people who did the work before you ("just fork it"). The important point lost in many of these anti-fork posts is that forks usually aren'…

> forks usually aren't hostile This. You can't even issue a Git pull/merge request without technically forking the project first! It's super common.

The article isn’t talking about the fork operation. It’s talking about running and maintaining a forked project as a new project and community.

Re: FOSS "just fork it" delusion

#50

Post by cornholio »

boltzmann-brain wrote: post #29
jamesbelchamber wrote: post #12

I think the wisdom of "just fork it" is that in a project the power lies with the people who do the work (yes, that power is often rented out in exchange for a pay cheque), and in an open source project you have the right to do that work without kowtowing to the authority of other people who did the work before you ("just fork it"). The important point lost in many of these anti-fork posts is that forks usually aren'…

in 30+ years of software development i've never heard "just fork it" or "you're welcome to fork it" used as an encouragement and i've heard it as a dismissal countless times. the article is spot on, and your interpretation of the described real-life situation is a rosy-tinted hypothetical at best.

It's dismissive because most of the requests open source developers get need to be dismissed.

"Where can I send some cash for your hard work" is much rarer than "Here's my very complex edge use case that I need to support ASAP, I think it's quite shameful you don't support this already must not take you more than 5 minutes, come on people do it already my clients are waiting".

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