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Downtown Denver's office vacancy rate grows to 38.2%

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Re: Downtown Denver's office vacancy rate grows to 38.2%

#41
Downtown Denver also kind of just sucks. A couple good restaurants sure, but 16th street mall (recently rebranded as “16th St. The Denver Way”) is comparable to City Center in SF.

Whenever friends move here I say “don’t live downtown” and inevitably they do and they hate it.

Re: Downtown Denver's office vacancy rate grows to 38.2%

#42

[flagged]

That ‘golf course’ was unused land protected by a conservation easement. There were other options for housing development.

Why not the conserve the land outside of cities where people want to live?

Re: Downtown Denver's office vacancy rate grows to 38.2%

#43
post #4
post #2

Looks like there is an opportunity to convert a lot of that into residential space.

Not necessarily. Things like "where do pipes run" so can get tricky along with code requirements for access. There's a NYT article on the challenges about this from a few years ago: So You Want to Turn an Office Building Into a Home? -- Here’s How to Solve a 25-Story Rubik’s Cube https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2023/03/11/upshot/office...

Great article with diagrams and overlays. Good share.

Re: Downtown Denver's office vacancy rate grows to 38.2%

#44
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The plumbing systems in commercial buildings are not big enough to handle residents usage. Residents use more water and the outbound sewage systems need to be larger.

There's already enough plumbing in there for a whole office to shit when they get to the office. History favors the bold, and code inspectors blabbering about "written in blood" don't see all the homeless people they kill via reduced access to housing. I've seen plenty of artist collectives that manage it; on paper they are office/industrial but actually everyone lives there. Every once in awhile one burns down but t…

Artists are a shrinking population, I wonder if having most of the top floors (20 out of 30) converted to extremely large luxury apartments (5000sqft+) and only 'adding capacity'to plumbing and what not for the lower 10 floors, which would house smaller units, would be economically viable. Although actual luxury market requires high ceiling so probably wouldn't work out.

I'm sure many many people have thought of all sort of solutions as the value for finding some sort of solution is extremely high.

Re: Downtown Denver's office vacancy rate grows to 38.2%

#45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be higher if the rents dropped, but despite the massive oversupply that doesn’t seem to be happening. ‘Just build more’ YIMBY types should take note of this, though I’m afraid I don’t know what the solution is.

Our evidence from a wide range of cities is that those that build more housing have lower rent growth. Actual decreases are unusual though.

Inflationary policy continues to exist, also it is rare to have a true overabundance of housing. But places like Detroit show prices can go down in the right conditions.

Commercial leases have their own quirks and long timelines that encourage waiting on a better price. Perhaps a tax on vacant commercial units.

Re: Downtown Denver's office vacancy rate grows to 38.2%

#46
post #3

Well but is the demand for office space in Denver so high?

Lived in Denver for the last 15 years and own a company. You couldnt pay me to have office space in Denver simply by virtue of i'd rather spend commuting time doing something more fun. This applies to just about everyone i know here as well. Many come to Denver for the outdoors and the activities, commutes cut into that time.

Re: Downtown Denver's office vacancy rate grows to 38.2%

#47

I think Denver (I live here) is an example of our horrible zoning. We have entirely focused our cities (especially Denver and RTD (Regional Transportation District)) around people commuting in for work. This is one of the main principles of BAD design, where you create an entire area around close to a single use (offices). That creates a very fragile city. This "single use" zoning that the US proliferated makes us re…

I also live in Denver. The biggest problem with downtown isn't zoning (though that may be a part), it's the homeless people. Who's going to want to go hang out on 16th when there's a dude asking you for money on every street corner? I don't know what the solution is, but it seems clear to me that revitalizing downtown starts with removing the "I'm going to have to deal with vagrants" factor.

When I worked off of 16th street, years ago, many of those homeless people had jobs with the Denver VOICE, selling newspapers. I even bought a few. Are they still around?

Re: Downtown Denver's office vacancy rate grows to 38.2%

#49

I think Denver (I live here) is an example of our horrible zoning. We have entirely focused our cities (especially Denver and RTD (Regional Transportation District)) around people commuting in for work. This is one of the main principles of BAD design, where you create an entire area around close to a single use (offices). That creates a very fragile city. This "single use" zoning that the US proliferated makes us re…

What size of home would you be willing to raise your children in? The average 3 br is 1000 sq. ft. in Berlin. US norms are for much larger homes.

A typical 3 bedroom flat/house in the UK has similar area. IMHO in terms of house sizes the US (with large houses) is an outlier, not Berlin.

Re: Downtown Denver's office vacancy rate grows to 38.2%

#50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That whole situation was bad. I don't think anyone is happy with that situation. A developer was going to give us (some) affordable housing, and a "free" park. Instead now we're paying 70 million for the same park.

In a POSIWID sense, American socialism’s purpose is to prevent affordable housing and create parks. Indistinguishable from what rich neighbors of a plot of land would like, coincidentally.

The purpose of a system is what it does, but here you're saying that the purpose of [American socialism] is what [the Denver DSA] does.
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