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Statement by Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Netherlands, Norway, Sweden, UK

bundesregierung.de

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Re: Statement by Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Netherlands, Norway, Sweden, UK

#41

Post by smilliken »

afterburner wrote: post #31
bicx wrote: post #5

As a U.S. citizen, I’m beginning to ask myself how to take more meaningful measures to help bring an end to this behavior. I’m not a political activist and generally try to mind my own business, but that mindset only worked when I felt I could trust the system to self-correct. It seems our judicial system can barely keep up, and Congress is doing next to nothing.

Don't let the people in your life casually get away with promoting fascism. Punish them socially.

That strategy may be cathartic, but it will have the opposite of the desired effect. If there's any hope of changing someone's mind, it has to start by respecting their opinion no matter how wrong you think it is. If you start a fight you'll get a fight.

Re: Statement by Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Netherlands, Norway, Sweden, UK

#42

Post by ben_w »

rpiguy wrote: post #36
afterburner wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't let the people in your life casually get away with promoting fascism. Punish them socially.

[flagged]

They didn't say "think differently", they said "promoting fascism".

If you look at J6 attempted self-coup where people were chanting death threats agaisnt the vice president and had a hangman's noose ready and pipe bombs were found and say "that was a peaceful protest", while also looking at the woman who was shot dead through the side window of her car while departing from a group of ICE officers and call that "self defence againsy attempted vehicular manslaughter", you may have a problem.

If your reaction to "Punish them socially" is to claim "That’s the most facist thing I’ve ever heard." of the person who essentially just said "stop talking to these people, stop inviting them to parties and stuff", when your fellow citizens are dying at the hands of federal officers who are being given defacto immunity, you may have a problem.

The current administration already punishes people for thinking differently with a lot worse than not inviting them to dinner; is the kind of regime that creates refugees and asylum seekers out of its own citizens, who flee from it.

Re: Statement by Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Netherlands, Norway, Sweden, UK

#43

Post by rpiguy »

bediger4000 wrote: post #19
lifetimerubyist wrote: post #6

Canadian Prime Minister recently said that he stands by Canada’s NATO Article 2 and 5 obligations with our Eureopean allies. A subtle signal that war with United States is a possibility. Trump will use this as a pretext to not only take Greenland but to invade Canada as well. He has gone utterly mad. Congress needs to act. Yesterday.

How would a standard invasion work? The news about DoD preparing invasion plans for Greenland have an invasion done by Special Operations, not the infantry, armor and air. Special operations probably wouldn't work for the population of Canada. After a short time, and some casualties, I think the US military would have real problems internally, not counting that popular support would disappear.

The US wouldn’t attack in an invasion. It would simply start building bases - it doesn’t need the south of Greenland. Just southern enough for a port that can stay open.

If we build a Rammstein- sized base the US would already outnumber the native population.

Would the Danes or French open fire on us while the US is setting up shop? Highly unlikely.

Trump is pushing a total takeover but I suspect he would rather leave a small pocket of southern Greenland to the Danes to continue supporting the indigenous people, and then taking the bulk of the rest for mineral rights, arctic sea lanes, and defense.

Re: Statement by Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Netherlands, Norway, Sweden, UK

#44

Post by holowoodman »

rpiguy wrote: post #43
bediger4000 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would a standard invasion work? The news about DoD preparing invasion plans for Greenland have an invasion done by Special Operations, not the infantry, armor and air. Special operations probably wouldn't work for the population of Canada. After a short time, and some casualties, I think the US military would have real problems internally, not counting that popular support would disappear.

The US wouldn’t attack in an invasion. It would simply start building bases - it doesn’t need the south of Greenland. Just southern enough for a port that can stay open. If we build a Rammstein- sized base the US would already outnumber the native population. Would the Danes or French open fire on us while the US is setting up shop? Highly unlikely. Trump is pushing a total takeover but I suspect he would rather leav…

> The US wouldn’t attack in an invasion. It would simply start building bases

Greenland is an island full of a vast nothingness, there is enough space for those kinds of bases. Greenland and Denmark have repeatedly said as much, and allowed the US to build any number of bases of any size. Building bases is totally possible, and always was possible, because Greenland and Denmark have always allowed it and would have continued to allow that.

I mean, they even turned a blind eye towards the US loosing a nuclear reactor and contaminating quite a bit of ice while trying to build tunnels for their ICBMs. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camp_Century

Re: Statement by Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Netherlands, Norway, Sweden, UK

#45

Post by throwaway89201 »

rpiguy wrote: post #35
throwaway89201 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't particularly care for your explanation, but if you do want to post these kind of comments at least explain yourself a bit so potentially a curious conversation can follow. Not doing so is arguably against this site's guidelines.

Can you please leave this comment on all the posts that state “we need to protest” or “look at the mad king” I don’t see any explanation or opportunity for curious conversation. Why did you single mine out? Oh yeah, the default instinct to censor different ideas. I support the US assuming control of Greenland because it would be incredibly economically beneficial to the US, militarily beneficial to the US, we’d be on…

> Why did you single mine out?

Because I thought some kind of curious conversation would be possible with the reply you made. The two other examples you posted are devoid of anything interesting; hopeless cases.

I should have consulted your posting history however, which consists mainly of short, combative and indignant responses like the one you just directed at me.

> it would be incredibly economically beneficial to the US

I fail to see how this is the case. The US and US companies have always been welcome to bid on mining concessions (at least, until recently), but the reality is that it's hardly profitable to do so, as there are ample cheaper opportunities available elsewhere.

Also, "assuming control" seems to be a euphemism for "invading" as the US buying Greenland is squarely out of the question. Invading is hardly humble, indeed, and you seem to be all too confident that such invading will allow for a republic and not lead to autocracy.

Re: Statement by Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Netherlands, Norway, Sweden, UK

#46

Post by jimmydddd »

ben_w wrote: post #42
rpiguy wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

They didn't say "think differently", they said "promoting fascism". If you look at J6 attempted self-coup where people were chanting death threats agaisnt the vice president and had a hangman's noose ready and pipe bombs were found and say "that was a peaceful protest", while also looking at the woman who was shot dead through the side window of her car while departing from a group of ICE officers and call that "self…

The problem is that after years of people crying "facism" for mean tweets, lowering coprorate taxes and eforcing a national border, the term has lost any meaning. Maybe we need a new term?

Re: Statement by Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Netherlands, Norway, Sweden, UK

#47

Post by Flundstrom2 »

orwin wrote: post #34
bediger4000 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would a standard invasion work? The news about DoD preparing invasion plans for Greenland have an invasion done by Special Operations, not the infantry, armor and air. Special operations probably wouldn't work for the population of Canada. After a short time, and some casualties, I think the US military would have real problems internally, not counting that popular support would disappear.

What are the US ground capabilities in extreme weather? Because from where I stand, I'm under the impression a Greenland invasion is off limit 8 months out of 12, and realistically the window is quite short, no? Also if any french military asset is present when the US attack, we will see how determined the french military is following it's own doctrine (which dictates a 'warning shot' 24 hours before sending the tact…

For Canada and the Nordic countries, the weather on Greenland is business as usual, for all branches of the military.

My guess is as yours - the US military's focus on middle east and east Asia is of great disadvantage for them. Do they even get below -20 C for any longer periods at any base located on US mainland? Alaska, and some regions close to Canada, perhaps, leaving them with only some 10.000 personnel having anything near arctic experience, majority of which are based at the bases, not trained for front-action in artic climate.

For some real-life insides:

https://youtube.com/watch?v=Msfrit12u0M&lc=UgwDlvf-UEzzhBzZJ...

https://youtu.be/DygiGQPGDPY?si=qxE5-7X8PC2eIeZS

https://youtu.be/3pwcZx1_KTA?si=d92vf4kqdDow0a-m

Re: Statement by Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Netherlands, Norway, Sweden, UK

#48

Post by rpiguy »

ben_w wrote: post #42
rpiguy wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

They didn't say "think differently", they said "promoting fascism". If you look at J6 attempted self-coup where people were chanting death threats agaisnt the vice president and had a hangman's noose ready and pipe bombs were found and say "that was a peaceful protest", while also looking at the woman who was shot dead through the side window of her car while departing from a group of ICE officers and call that "self…

[flagged]

Re: Statement by Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Netherlands, Norway, Sweden, UK

#49

Post by ben_w »

rpiguy wrote: post #35
throwaway89201 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't particularly care for your explanation, but if you do want to post these kind of comments at least explain yourself a bit so potentially a curious conversation can follow. Not doing so is arguably against this site's guidelines.

Can you please leave this comment on all the posts that state “we need to protest” or “look at the mad king” I don’t see any explanation or opportunity for curious conversation. Why did you single mine out? Oh yeah, the default instinct to censor different ideas. I support the US assuming control of Greenland because it would be incredibly economically beneficial to the US, militarily beneficial to the US, we’d be on…

> I support the US assuming control of Greenland because it would be incredibly economically beneficial to the US, militarily beneficial to the US

You immediately lose all of your NATO allies, and have the potential for an immediate war with not only all of them but also all the non-NATO members of the EU, which includes two independent nuclear powers, and who hold enough assets to cripple your economy without even firing a shot: both by fire-sale of bonds and other assets, and even just by ceasing trade with you.

China and Russia both have immediate and huge opportunities in both a hot war and an economic blockade. Of the two, I wouldn't put it past Russia to even attempt to use a nuke as a false-flag attack in this scenario, in either direction (US former allies) or both directions. It would be really really stupid of them, but Putin's already shown consistent stupidity, so that's not enough to discount it.

Re: Statement by Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Netherlands, Norway, Sweden, UK

#50

Post by Chance-Device »

I’ll put myself in the minority here by saying that I think Trump is probably right. Greenland can’t be credibly defended by Denmark, the EU or even NATO. Article 5 is an untested foundation myth. Greenland is far away. Political will matters. We might be heading towards an independent Greenland if we continue following the status quo, which would be influenced strongly by adversaries and would be a US security nightmare.

I’d say that I prefer him to go about it a different way, except that I can’t see what that different way looks like when you want territory from another country that doesn’t want to give it to you.

And I say this as a European. Europe is not credible from a defense perspective and lacks the will to do very much of anything quickly or effectively. The best you can expect is a series of talking shops and some policy documents to be drawn up while the ice continues to melt.

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