Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

BYD's cheapest electric cars to have Lidar self-driving tech

thedriven.io

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 340 posts

Re: BYD's cheapest electric cars to have Lidar self-driving tech

#41

Post by terminalshort »

ronnier wrote: post #27
cyberax wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure. And Tesla doesn't have robotaxis at all, they're still playing in the kindergarten league. So Tesla is in a weird state right now. Tesla's highway assist is shit, it's worse than Mercedes previous generation assist after Tesla switched to the end-to-end neural networks. The new MB.Drive Assist Pro is apparently even better. FSD attempts to work in cities. But it's ridiculously bad, it's worse than useless even…

This goes against my daily fsd usage and my friends fsd usage. We all use fsd daily, zero issues, through hard city and highway environments. It’s near perfect outside of the occasional weird routing issues (but that’s not a safety issue). We all have the latest fsd on hw4. No other consumer car on the market in the US can do this (go from point a to b with zero interventions through city and highway). If there was s…

The issue here is that "zero issues" is something that must be based on a very large sample size. In the US the death rate for cars is a bit over 1 per 100 million miles. So you really need billions of miles of data. FSD could be 10x as dangerous as the average driver and still it would most likely be "zero issues" for you and all your friends.

Re: BYD's cheapest electric cars to have Lidar self-driving tech

#42

Post by neilv »

DustinEchoes wrote: post #22

Still not convinced of the safety of lidar. I guess all these cars with cheap lidar sensors on board will generate real world safety data over the next few years.

What if the real world safety data over time is... secret retinal damage to millions of walkers and runners, with symptoms attributed to Covid mysteries (and not obviously due to vision), and it takes years more before someone happens to get enough data, and does the right study analysis, and then there's industry with strong incentive not to be on the hook for blinding millions of people?

If the tech industry has taught us anything, it's that big money is still as irresponsible and greedy as ever.

I suppose that one small bit of hope is that one of the most obvious bad actors in general happened to be opposed to Lidar, and might like to screw competitors with a scandal. So the news might come out, after much tragic damage is done.

Re: BYD's cheapest electric cars to have Lidar self-driving tech

#43

Post by terminalshort »

refulgentis wrote: post #6
iknowstuff wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And then made the best adas on the market using cameras

I've struggled with this over the years, but think we can call it at this point: Waymo is definitely better. Just too much real world data. (i.e. scaled paid service, no drivers, multiple cities, for 1 year+)

Is it really comparable, though? What is better a Ferrari or a Ford Ranger? That depends on if you are trying to go fast or haul 500 lbs of stuff across town. Waymo is a much better completely autonomous robo taxi in limited areas mapped to the mm, but if I want an autonomous driving system for my personal car to go wherever I want, Tesla FSD is the better option.

Re: BYD's cheapest electric cars to have Lidar self-driving tech

#44

Post by jandrewrogers »

senti_sentient wrote: post #3
cadamsdotcom wrote: post #2

Disruption at its finest :)

Someone said that LiDAR is too expensive, camera is better :)

The long-term view of LIDAR was not so much that it was expensive, though it was at the time. The issue is that it is susceptible to interference if everyone is using LIDAR for everything all the time and it is vulnerable to spoofing/jamming by bad actors.

For better or worse, passive optical is much more robust against these types of risks. This doesn't matter much when LIDAR is relatively rare but that can't be assumed to remain the case forever.

Re: BYD's cheapest electric cars to have Lidar self-driving tech

#45

Post by qwerpy »

durandal1 wrote: post #30
cyberax wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure. And Tesla doesn't have robotaxis at all, they're still playing in the kindergarten league. So Tesla is in a weird state right now. Tesla's highway assist is shit, it's worse than Mercedes previous generation assist after Tesla switched to the end-to-end neural networks. The new MB.Drive Assist Pro is apparently even better. FSD attempts to work in cities. But it's ridiculously bad, it's worse than useless even…

For anyone who has or has experienced the latest gen FSD from Tesla this comes across as a complete lie. Why would you spend energy lying on HN of all places?

I recently went on vacation and rented a 7 year old Model X and the FSD on it (v12) was better than nothing but not great, especially after having v14 on my truck drive 99% of my miles. It truly is a life-changer for people fortunate enough to have it, so it's always jarring to see the misinformed/dishonest comments online. It's still not perfect but at this point I would trust it more than the average human and certainly more than a new/old/exhausted/inebriated/distracted driver.

Re: BYD's cheapest electric cars to have Lidar self-driving tech

#46

Post by senti_sentient »

g947o wrote: post #36
cyberax wrote: post #16

Keep in mind, that $25k AUD is just $16600. And for that price, you're getting a real car with driver-assist features and a reasonable crash safety rating. The US car manufacturers are cooked.

US manufacturers are going to be ok as long as there are policies banning foreign cars and there are tariffs, which is going to be true for a long time. And somehow US consumers feel comfortable paying more for worse cars.

I had family friends visiting Australia from USA and they were surprised by the sheer number and varieties of Chinese cars on our roads. I too have a BYD Dolphin and Shark, they loved them and felt they’re missing out big time on this. Mind you we have lots of Teslas on the roads as well, but they are bleeding their lead.

Re: BYD's cheapest electric cars to have Lidar self-driving tech

#47

Post by qwerpy »

terminalshort wrote: post #41
ronnier wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This goes against my daily fsd usage and my friends fsd usage. We all use fsd daily, zero issues, through hard city and highway environments. It’s near perfect outside of the occasional weird routing issues (but that’s not a safety issue). We all have the latest fsd on hw4. No other consumer car on the market in the US can do this (go from point a to b with zero interventions through city and highway). If there was s…

The issue here is that "zero issues" is something that must be based on a very large sample size. In the US the death rate for cars is a bit over 1 per 100 million miles. So you really need billions of miles of data. FSD could be 10x as dangerous as the average driver and still it would most likely be "zero issues" for you and all your friends.

I'll post the 7 billion miles of stats here (https://www.tesla.com/fsd/safety) but then the objections will be "it's Tesla of course they lie" and the debunked "they turn FSD off right before an accident".

Re: BYD's cheapest electric cars to have Lidar self-driving tech

#48

Post by cyberax »

durandal1 wrote: post #30
cyberax wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure. And Tesla doesn't have robotaxis at all, they're still playing in the kindergarten league. So Tesla is in a weird state right now. Tesla's highway assist is shit, it's worse than Mercedes previous generation assist after Tesla switched to the end-to-end neural networks. The new MB.Drive Assist Pro is apparently even better. FSD attempts to work in cities. But it's ridiculously bad, it's worse than useless even…

For anyone who has or has experienced the latest gen FSD from Tesla this comes across as a complete lie. Why would you spend energy lying on HN of all places?

I've been using Tesla since 2015. And no, it's not a lie.

Tesla FSD gives up with the red-hands-of-death panic at this spot: https://maps.app.goo.gl/Cfe9LBzaCLpGSAr99 (edit: fixed the location)

It also misinterprets this signal: https://maps.app.goo.gl/fhZsQtN5LKy59Mpv6 It doesn't have enough resolution to resolve the red left arrow, especially when it's even mildly rainy.

At this intersection, it just gets confused and I have to take over to finish the turn: https://maps.app.goo.gl/DHeBmwpe3pfD6AXc6

You're welcome to try these locations.

Re: BYD's cheapest electric cars to have Lidar self-driving tech

#49

Post by ronnier »

terminalshort wrote: post #41
ronnier wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This goes against my daily fsd usage and my friends fsd usage. We all use fsd daily, zero issues, through hard city and highway environments. It’s near perfect outside of the occasional weird routing issues (but that’s not a safety issue). We all have the latest fsd on hw4. No other consumer car on the market in the US can do this (go from point a to b with zero interventions through city and highway). If there was s…

The issue here is that "zero issues" is something that must be based on a very large sample size. In the US the death rate for cars is a bit over 1 per 100 million miles. So you really need billions of miles of data. FSD could be 10x as dangerous as the average driver and still it would most likely be "zero issues" for you and all your friends.

[flagged]

Re: BYD's cheapest electric cars to have Lidar self-driving tech

#50

Post by protastus »

Tempest1981 wrote: post #24

The roof mount seems very practical, but it's a look that may turn off some buyers... buyers who care about looks. For SUVs, maybe it could be blended in with a roof air scoop, like on some off-road trucks. Or a light bar. Where is the LiDAR on the Atto 1? In the grille? How much worse is the field of view?

My impression is that Chinese consumer products haven't been hijacked by the "design above everything else" mindset. The priority is to make things work at scale.

American product design is obsessed with appearance and finish. Products end up costing 3 times more and functionality is degraded.

Post reply on HN