Apple Turns on iPhone Tracking in iOS6 • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple Turns on iPhone Tracking in iOS6

#41

Post by ralfd » Mon, Oct 15, 2012, 10:31 PM UTC

revelation wrote: post #38

SeoxyS wrote: post #37

As somebody who actually has first hand knowledge of this issue (I wrote and designed the tracking for a major iOS ad network), I can say that this is an incredibly misleading article. Here's what's actually going on: - Apple has deprecated the UDID. We're still allowed to use it for a while, but in the long term it's going away. - Apple has created a new identifier (the IFA), specifically for the use case of adverti…

Thanks for giving us the information on "what's actually going on". But that makes it seem worse, even when you apparently can't see it from working in the field. Apple continues to give apps access to the UDID; the recent leaks were apparently not as stark a reminder as some people thought. The "Limit Ad Tracking" option seems wholly useless; another "X-Do-Not-Track". In this case, the user even expresses the wish t…

If Apple wouldn't provide an ID then developers would code their own device identifiers. This here is crossplatform for iOS and Android:

https://github.com/ylechelle/OpenUDID/blob/master/README.md

Or just read the MAC address: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/677530/how-can-i-programm...

> Google does just fine without a globally unique "advertising number". It can do so because people get actual value for the advertisements, and the advertisements are targeted.

I don't understand, can you elaborate? How can advertisements be targeted without tracking?

Re: Apple Turns on iPhone Tracking in iOS6

#42

Post by richcollins » Mon, Oct 15, 2012, 10:43 PM UTC

For the last few months, iPhone users have enjoyed an unusual environment in which advertisers have been largely unable to track and target them in any meaningful way.

This is completely false. It hasn't changed at all in any meaningful way.

Re: Apple Turns on iPhone Tracking in iOS6

#43

Post by Karunamon » Mon, Oct 15, 2012, 10:49 PM UTC

suyash wrote: post #4

headShrinker wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a ridiculous comment. Take your trolling comments somewhere else. Nearly every company is guilty of reusing collected data and almost always without telling customers.

It's not a ridiculous comment. Do you work at Apple? What's wrong with him expressing his opinion. I feel the same way and belive we can have a discussion about what's right and what's wrong. I agree that most companies just automatically subscribe you in when they create new feature and they make it users responsibility to opt out but I hate it as much as most of us. At least they (including Apple) should be respons…

It's not a ridiculous comment.

P> Good thing (for Apple) most of their customers have had too much koolaid to care.

We're going to have to agree to disagree on that. One bit of snarky bullshit ruins the whole comment.

Re: Apple Turns on iPhone Tracking in iOS6

#44

Post by mikeash » Mon, Oct 15, 2012, 10:53 PM UTC

SeoxyS wrote: post #37

As somebody who actually has first hand knowledge of this issue (I wrote and designed the tracking for a major iOS ad network), I can say that this is an incredibly misleading article. Here's what's actually going on: - Apple has deprecated the UDID. We're still allowed to use it for a while, but in the long term it's going away. - Apple has created a new identifier (the IFA), specifically for the use case of adverti…

Without this, advertising wouldn't be possible?

Maybe it would be less successful, maybe less prevalent, maybe less useful, but I'm pretty sure advertising would still be possible in a world with no device-specific IDs made accessible to the advertisers.

Re: Apple Turns on iPhone Tracking in iOS6

#45

Post by JoshTriplett » Mon, Oct 15, 2012, 11:03 PM UTC

SeoxyS wrote: post #37

As somebody who actually has first hand knowledge of this issue (I wrote and designed the tracking for a major iOS ad network), I can say that this is an incredibly misleading article. Here's what's actually going on: - Apple has deprecated the UDID. We're still allowed to use it for a while, but in the long term it's going away. - Apple has created a new identifier (the IFA), specifically for the use case of adverti…

> the market would be very different (No free/freemium apps

Most freemium apps seem to rely on in-app purchases, not ads. (Leaving aside the ones that combine the two by having you pay for not having ads, but many apps manage to come up with something more creative than that.)

And quite a few free apps exist that don't have ads.

Re: Apple Turns on iPhone Tracking in iOS6

#46

Post by SCdF » Mon, Oct 15, 2012, 11:03 PM UTC

SeoxyS wrote: post #37

As somebody who actually has first hand knowledge of this issue (I wrote and designed the tracking for a major iOS ad network), I can say that this is an incredibly misleading article. Here's what's actually going on: - Apple has deprecated the UDID. We're still allowed to use it for a while, but in the long term it's going away. - Apple has created a new identifier (the IFA), specifically for the use case of adverti…

> We are not allowed to use it to create profiles, or to improve our ad targeting algorithm. We are absolutely not allowed to divulge the information to third parties.

Sorry I'm pretty ignorant on how this kind of thing works, but when you say 'not allowed', what's actually stopping you? I mean, how is Apple or anyone else going to know if you do or do not use these IDs?

Re: Apple Turns on iPhone Tracking in iOS6

#47

Post by josereyes » Mon, Oct 15, 2012, 11:22 PM UTC

JoshTriplett wrote: post #45

SeoxyS wrote: post #37

As somebody who actually has first hand knowledge of this issue (I wrote and designed the tracking for a major iOS ad network), I can say that this is an incredibly misleading article. Here's what's actually going on: - Apple has deprecated the UDID. We're still allowed to use it for a while, but in the long term it's going away. - Apple has created a new identifier (the IFA), specifically for the use case of adverti…

> the market would be very different (No free/freemium apps Most freemium apps seem to rely on in-app purchases, not ads. (Leaving aside the ones that combine the two by having you pay for not having ads, but many apps manage to come up with something more creative than that.) And quite a few free apps exist that don't have ads.

In-app purchases are most commonly a supplemental revenue stream. Most of the largest free apps are backed by ad revenues.

Re: Apple Turns on iPhone Tracking in iOS6

#48

Post by nirajd » Mon, Oct 15, 2012, 11:43 PM UTC

Are you kidding me? Regardless of privacy, this is incredibly useful. I would love having even the slightest amount relevance with the iAds popping up on my iAds.

Re: Apple Turns on iPhone Tracking in iOS6

#49

Post by 0wza » Tue, Oct 16, 2012, 12:00 AM UTC

SeoxyS wrote: post #37

As somebody who actually has first hand knowledge of this issue (I wrote and designed the tracking for a major iOS ad network), I can say that this is an incredibly misleading article. Here's what's actually going on: - Apple has deprecated the UDID. We're still allowed to use it for a while, but in the long term it's going away. - Apple has created a new identifier (the IFA), specifically for the use case of adverti…

Depends what your cake is. The internet was not always ad-supported. We know for fact it was valuable before commercial activity was permitted. Suggesting that any improvements since that time are attributable to web advertising is perhaps an easy argument to make, but a very difficult one to support with evidence. Showing correlation is easy. Any fool can do it. Causation OTOH requires work: a well designed experiment, using acceptable methods with controls, and data subjected to rigorous statistical analysis.

Web and mobile advertising does not need to become "impossible" in order for you to stop suggesting it's unavoidable.

Any fool can also make predictions of the future. Given Y, X will not exist. But given Z, X will exist. If we could be so certain about cause and effect and how to shape the future, mobile advertising would be quite easy, wouldn't it?

However we can all see that is not the case. Uncertainty favors those selling advertising services, not advertisers.

Allowing commercial activity does not necessarily mean the internet has to be an ad channel. I'd still buy things from Amazon even if I never saw a single web ad for the company. There are many other ad channels besides the web. They still work.

Re: Apple Turns on iPhone Tracking in iOS6

#50

Post by jonknee » Tue, Oct 16, 2012, 12:30 AM UTC

ralfd wrote: post #41

revelation wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for giving us the information on "what's actually going on". But that makes it seem worse, even when you apparently can't see it from working in the field. Apple continues to give apps access to the UDID; the recent leaks were apparently not as stark a reminder as some people thought. The "Limit Ad Tracking" option seems wholly useless; another "X-Do-Not-Track". In this case, the user even expresses the wish t…

If Apple wouldn't provide an ID then developers would code their own device identifiers. This here is crossplatform for iOS and Android: https://github.com/ylechelle/OpenUDID/blob/master/README.md Or just read the MAC address: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/677530/how-can-i-programm... > Google does just fine without a globally unique "advertising number". It can do so because people get actual value for the adve…

> I don't understand, can you elaborate? How can advertisements be targeted without tracking?

Keywords is how Google does it. Try using Google in Incognito mode (or whatever your browser of choice calls it) and note the relevant ads. Obviously this does not work as well in all apps, but to say you can't do targeted advertising without tracking is not true.