Live data from Hacker News

Programming as a cure for A.D.D.?

zackshapiro.com

41–50 of 52 posts

Re: Programming as a cure for A.D.D.?

#41
post #39

Is this a real condition or just Americans inventing up diseases?

at·ten·tion deficit disorder (-tnshn) n. Abbr. ADD A syndrome, usually diagnosed in childhood, characterized by a persistent pattern of impulsiveness, a short attention span, and sometimes hyperactivity, and interfering especially with academic, occupational, and social performance.

Re: Programming as a cure for A.D.D.?

#42
I don't know about programming being a cure for A.D.D. or the like as it depends upon the programming enviroment (scripting better than compiled I'd say).

I learned early on with a ZX81 and I can say one thing I did learn a bit more patience with the wobberly ram pack and loading/saving times.

Though I worked in a nice quite bedroom with no distractions and that is a big factor.

I would say that doing martial arts - well kendo helped me alot on many levels. Has nice culture and attitude compared to some of the other martial arts or at least how they are taught. Also `Do` being the way or as apposed to `Jitsu` suffix, which is the art of killing; Does highlight its more zen like mindset. Also knowing what distracts you and how it distracts you and controlling the distractions helps as well.

   But like anything and anybody - if it works for you then it works nomatter what other people say and stick with your comfort level.

Re: Programming as a cure for A.D.D.?

#43
I was diagnosed with ADHD when I was 17, after many years of living with it. I decided I would not take drugs for it. I was afraid I would lose my creativity and that kind of stuff. I started rescheduling my tasks so the most boring ones would get the time of the day I would me most inspired. It helped for a time, but I couldn't stay in the same place for too long. After some years frequently changing jobs, friends and hobbys, I finally found my place. I've been programming since my childhood. Sometimes, ADHD helps (giving ideas on how to solve problems), some other times, it gets in the way, making me lazy to solve some repetitive problems. After 4 or 5 different jobs, I found one where it doesn't get repetitive. I work in projects that last around six months. Each project uses a different language, with different teams and tools and routines. It's been like heaven. After I started working here, my whole life improved. I stopped growing tired of people and could finally keep the same friends for a long time. I even started a serious relationship.

Re: Programming as a cure for A.D.D.?

#44
post #26

> I never noticed or accepted that I had mild A.D.D. until a few months ago and around that time, I started thinking about methods to work with it. Not to be rude, but it's unclear whether the author has had an actual professional diagnosis. ADHD is one of the most commonly self-diagnosed conditions, and also one of the most commonly mis diagnosed conditions. It doesn't help that ADHD is much more difficult to diagno…

You don't have to be hyperactive, even though your mind might be - in that case I suppose it's just ADD, right? I got the same feeling as you from reading the article, but as someone who has extreme trouble concentrating, I can definitely relate. I never had it diagnosed, but always suspected that I might have a similar problem, but my life worked out, so I didn't have to bring any attention to it. When programming y…

> You don't have to be hyperactive, even though your mind might be - in that case I suppose it's just ADD, right?

Not really. That's a common misunderstanding, but it's taking the name a little too literally. ADHD is actually the diagnosis (314), but one of the forms can be 'ADHD without hyperactivity'. However, 'hyperactivity' doesn't actually imply what most people thing it does, just from hearing the name, which is why the entire term is a bit of a misnomer.

> as someone who has extreme trouble concentrating, I can definitely relate.

ADHD is very, very different from simply 'having difficulty concentrating'. You can potentially have moderate or even severe ADHD without noticing any difficulties concentrating.

> In my case it seems to work, but then again - I was never diagnosed with anything.

I'd be really careful about generalizing your case to people with ADHD, then. To use a blunt comparison, it'd be as if someone claimed that watching funny movies made them feel happier and therefore it is a 'cure' for depression (a psychological condition much more complicated than mere 'unhappiness').

Re: Programming as a cure for A.D.D.?

#45
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't have to be hyperactive, even though your mind might be - in that case I suppose it's just ADD, right? I got the same feeling as you from reading the article, but as someone who has extreme trouble concentrating, I can definitely relate. I never had it diagnosed, but always suspected that I might have a similar problem, but my life worked out, so I didn't have to bring any attention to it. When programming y…

> You don't have to be hyperactive, even though your mind might be - in that case I suppose it's just ADD, right? Not really. That's a common misunderstanding, but it's taking the name a little too literally. ADHD is actually the diagnosis (314), but one of the forms can be 'ADHD without hyperactivity'. However, 'hyperactivity' doesn't actually imply what most people thing it does, just from hearing the name, which i…

I wasn't trying to generalize, and I hope I didn't come off like that. For the record: I don't care if I suffer from it, but I have symptoms that makes it likely (words of a doctor, not mine), and I thought it appropriate to share my experiences - with a small disclaimer.

I've had problems in school; couldn't hang on to a job, and so on. Until I was sort of "forced" into learning how to program. It in turn forced me to focus, and it made all the difference.

Added note: Programming didn't make it easier to focus. But it seems to fit me, and my short attention span, plus it's just too darn interesting.

Re: Programming as a cure for A.D.D.?

#46
post #5
post #4

Huh. I'm actually getting tested for ADD on the recommendation of my therapist (the preliminary answer seems to be that no, I do not have ADD). I most emphatically cannot work while I have a TV running. In fact, I can't even seem to program and listen to music at the same time.

I would switch between TV and work, letting one distract me from the other. I struggled with music for a while too. Ambient stuff like Tycho, The Mattson 2 and Blue Sky Black Death really helped at the outset.

Really like these music selects. Thanks for posting them.

Re: Programming as a cure for A.D.D.?

#47
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your dosage was probably too high if it made you feel abnormally different. Though I agree people with adhd each have their self medications. Mine was actually music growing up. My best friend likes cars. Can you read text books and stuff? I have a hard time studying code, thinking about problems without my meds. Are you inattentive too? Or just hyperactive?

A bit of detail on why I hated the meds: I had pretty negative side effects from the get go, and eventually problems with tolerance, which eventually led to her prescribing an increased dose every checkup (6 months like clockwork). Over the treatment, side effects I suffered were massive loss of apetite (And everything that goes with not being able to finish a meal, general feeling of faintness, malnutrition), stomac…

Have you ever tried to add an Omega-3 fish oil supplement? I find it really clears my head and I can organize my thoughts better.

Re: Programming as a cure for A.D.D.?

#48

I do my best work when I take stimulant medication. I simply do not get as much done without it, and even then I find it can be ineffective. With programming I often lose track of what I'm doing and end up off task without even realizing it. I can have a low tolerance for working on things that do not interest me, finding it almost physically impossible to apply myself. Somehow amphetamine salts make me feel more eng…

> I can have a low tolerance for working on things that do not interest me, finding it almost physically impossible to apply myself. It sounds to me like you're describing the human condition more than ADHD. Amphetamines have been shown to increase performance on a wide variety of tasks for most people, the fact that they help you should definitely not be taken as a sign that you have ADHD.

Nevertheless, being unable to maintain focus on activities that are not enjoyable/easy is a diagnostic criteria for inattentive ADHD.

Whatever the case, categorizing these symptoms into a disorder is rather inconsequential to the fact that taking Adderall has generally improved my quality of life. I honestly don't know if I'd be able to keep my job without it.

Re: Programming as a cure for A.D.D.?

#49
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hyperfocus is just a form of self medication. People with ADHD find things they are stimulated by, grow a dependence on it and through practice naturally become great at those things. This is a misconception to consider "many hours of practice" as "adhd gifts". I dont think it is a gift at all, rather the only option we end up having to escape.

(Mild ADHD here) Hyperfocus sounds great, yet it comes at a steep price: extreme exhaustion. Sometimes I just can't work for days (weeks happen) straight. Then at times hyperfocus kicks in and I complete three days work in one swoop, but after that I feel energetically empty. You're right on the dependence because HF gives a high, and I admit although the attention deficit part is a terrible pain, the high is so grea…

Hyper-focus is not great, nor is it some form of "super power" that adhd people have. Its any time that somebody with adhd is able to focus on something. People without attention disorders can focus willingly, people with adhd cant.

The difference is that the adhd brain is deprived of euphoric dopamine until you have that "hyper focus" activity that the adhd mind begins to depend on.

People with adhd are highly prone to becoming mentally dependent on activities like video games because of this euphoria. However, I find that being medicated appropriately and focusing on what I want to focus on is more rewarding than the activities I depended on pre-diagnosis and treatment.

Re: Programming as a cure for A.D.D.?

#50
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your dosage was probably too high if it made you feel abnormally different. Though I agree people with adhd each have their self medications. Mine was actually music growing up. My best friend likes cars. Can you read text books and stuff? I have a hard time studying code, thinking about problems without my meds. Are you inattentive too? Or just hyperactive?

A bit of detail on why I hated the meds: I had pretty negative side effects from the get go, and eventually problems with tolerance, which eventually led to her prescribing an increased dose every checkup (6 months like clockwork). Over the treatment, side effects I suffered were massive loss of apetite (And everything that goes with not being able to finish a meal, general feeling of faintness, malnutrition), stomac…

Honestly, and this is coming from somebody who understands the way you feel. You really shouldnt give up on the medication. Rather you should experiment with the different kind of medications and setting yourself up on a routine that works.

For instance mixed amphetamine salts (sounds like you were on adderall,), works for some people, while methylphenidate (ritalin) works much better. Then there is straterra which works for people where the other two failed. Another thing you should take into consideration is that there is a HUGE difference between Dexedrine and the typical generic amphetamine pills you would get at Walmart for example. (pure Amphetamine-D isomer, vs the mixed salt combo of Amphetmine-D and Amphetamine-L)

What I take specifically is generic amphetamine mixed salt instant release 30 mg that I split up into 4 doses ~3 hours apart. That is for a 12 hour day of work. Then Im also prescribed sleeping pills for insomnia.

The thing is, if I dont break up my pills, or if I make a bad call and decide to pull an all nighter. I get anxiety, swollen lymph nodes, rashes, zombie effect, head aches, cotton mouth, sensitive teeth, ect. One of the main reasons this happens is because you dont properly stay hydrated and well fed.

You need to be strict about your body's needs if you expect to be able to provide for what this medication requires to be effective. You need to support living habits beyond the scope of what the medication provides so that that your brain itself has the chemicals necessary for the medication to be effective.

If your stop eating, drinking, exercising, sleeping while on this medication it will stop working effectively gradually more and more after awhile. A perfect example of this, is if you have ever taken 4 pills in a row, they dont provide the same effectiveness, as if you were to take each of those pills after a full night of sleep. Or if you wait 3 days, they are even more effective.

You have to find a routine that works for you, and you have to research into your disorder. Research into the drugs. When I met my psychiatrist and told him exactly all that I know about the drugs and the neurology behind it, he said he really wished all of his patients took the time to educate themselves on these type of issues like I did because it makes his job a million times easier to find therapies that actually work.

Deciding to forsake medication, or your psychiatrist suggesting its the only choice is wrong. No offense, but you could achieve much greater potential and stability in your life/relationships when you are properly medicated.

I am very productive without my medications, especially as a musician. I had my adhd as under control and manageable as you can get it. People couldnt tell I had adhd. But it is extremely uncomfortable living that way. Learning to live with adhd, without medication only puts walls in your way. This isnt really a debatable matter whether disorders like this should be treated depending on a case by case patient's experience, I highly recommend you dont give up on it because other unfortunate individuals like us, going through a similar experience like you did, might try to give up as well rather than try something new.

All I know, is that im about 8 days without my medication right now, and while I can still code, that doesn't change the feeling that I'm back in my mental cage.

Post reply on HN