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A prediction market user made $436k betting on Maduro's downfall

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Re: A prediction market user made $436k betting on Maduro's downfall

#41
post #23
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How? Then why would non-insiders bet? The classic prediction market is guessing the weight of an elephant (or some animal) at a circus. The average guess of the crowd will actually get very close. But if someone knows the actual weight, no one would play.

The entire idea of a prediction market is to aggregate insider information. If you don't have insiders, you're not doing predictions, you're just doing gambling. Granted: that's what almost every Polymarket user is actually doing. But that's a bad thing . The insider whales are the only ones actually using it for its intended purpose.

Well, it's confusing because you have markets on questions with very different characteristics in terms of whether they are exogenous or not (and whether they are exogenous from the perspective of particular groups), or just with different degrees of asymmetry regardless of whether there are literal "insiders".

Like, prediction markets have questions ranging from what the weather will be in a certain year, to who will win elections, to what stock prices or exchange rates will be, to whether companies will announce specific products, to whether particular people will start dating, to whether a specific person will say a specific word during a conference (some of the Manifold "prop bets" for Manifest).

These are not the same kinds of questions in terms of whether there are insiders at all or who the insiders are. Maybe we can't expect prediction markets to have the same dynamics in all of these cases.

Depending on what you want out of a prediction market, there's probably a sweet spot in terms of whom you should expect (or want) to be trading in it.

In the most exogenous events, those that are most outside of the control of individuals or groups, I think Robin Hanson hoped (in proposing "idea futures") that people would be incentivized to invest in research in order to gain a statistical edge in the market, but also assumed that there wasn't anyone who was inherently drastically better positioned to get information about the question than anyone else. E.g. "I will spend $X to get a better estimate of this probability (hopefully by otherwise ethical means?), and that will make my expected return from buying $Y worth of prediction contracts greater than $(X+Y)". Indeed not something retail investors or gamblers should probably participate in.

It's also true that in some cases where there are true insiders it can give the insiders a financial incentive to reveal confidential information. From the point of view of trying to get the most accurate possible estimate of the likelihood of future events, that would indeed also be a success, even if the process was "unfair" to non-insiders.

Re: A prediction market user made $436k betting on Maduro's downfall

#42
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because they are, to use a technical term, "dumb as a stump". That's why they would participate despite not having any inside knowledge.

Or they are hedging their exposure to an unknown by betting in favor of an event that would be harmful/costly to them.

Those people want prices to accurately track risk, which is what insiders allow.

Re: A prediction market user made $436k betting on Maduro's downfall

#43
post #34

Just a casual $32,537 bet a few hours before the secret operation. Nothing to see here.

It's my understanding a couple news agencies knew before everyone else but held off publishing. Seems like a good opportunity for nephew of someone in the media if not directly one of an official. https://www.thewrap.com/media-platforms/journalism/nyt-wapo-...

Let's not forget

> Donald Trump Jr, the president's son, serves in advisory roles at Kalshi and Polymarket.

Re: A prediction market user made $436k betting on Maduro's downfall

#44
post #41
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The entire idea of a prediction market is to aggregate insider information. If you don't have insiders, you're not doing predictions, you're just doing gambling. Granted: that's what almost every Polymarket user is actually doing. But that's a bad thing . The insider whales are the only ones actually using it for its intended purpose.

Well, it's confusing because you have markets on questions with very different characteristics in terms of whether they are exogenous or not (and whether they are exogenous from the perspective of particular groups), or just with different degrees of asymmetry regardless of whether there are literal "insiders". Like, prediction markets have questions ranging from what the weather will be in a certain year, to who wil…

Yeah, I mean, they're a wretched hive of scum and villainy, I preemptively agree. I'm just saying, insider bets don't have the same ethical or legal valence on a prediction market that they do in the financial markets (even there, at least in the US, the principles underlying insider trading law are really poorly understood.)

Re: A prediction market user made $436k betting on Maduro's downfall

#45
post #38
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not 'predicting' when the outcome/answer is known. From the wiki entry on prediction markets "The main purpose of prediction markets are eliciting aggregating beliefs about an unknown future event."

I think you should probably read more about the background of prediction markets. Robin Hanson is a useful place to start. The whole concept of a prediction market is to convert private information into prices . That only works with "insider" information.

As I said in a parallel comment, Hanson was also thinking about scientific questions, where there are asymmetries in knowledge but people can often invest in research that improves their own knowledge (like by performing an experiment or a scientific expedition or something). So, Hanson believed that prediction markets could incentivize people to invest in scientific research in order to get an edge over other market participants in such questions. That doesn't exactly make them insiders, though.

Interestingly, it doesn't necessarily incentivize them to publish the detailed results of their investigations. They're incentivized to reveal what they expect to happen (based on how they bet), but not necessarily incentivized to reveal why they think so, or how they know. E.g. if you became able to predict the weather more accurately than other models over some timeframe, prediction markets would incentivize you to reveal (some aspects of) your predictions, but not your method for making those predictions.

Re: A prediction market user made $436k betting on Maduro's downfall

#46

It's technically not illegal if someone was able to observe the planes flying and place the bets accordingly. Public info is legal to trade on. But it's obviously also ripe for abuse. Any govt. employee can start trading on the side, 100% untraceable.

It is also not illegal to bet on insider information. This isn't the stock market.

Re: A prediction market user made $436k betting on Maduro's downfall

#47
post #45
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you should probably read more about the background of prediction markets. Robin Hanson is a useful place to start. The whole concept of a prediction market is to convert private information into prices . That only works with "insider" information.

As I said in a parallel comment, Hanson was also thinking about scientific questions, where there are asymmetries in knowledge but people can often invest in research that improves their own knowledge (like by performing an experiment or a scientific expedition or something). So, Hanson believed that prediction markets could incentivize people to invest in scientific research in order to get an edge over other market…

He wrote a whole paper on this.

https://mason.gmu.edu/~rhanson/insiderbet.pdf

Re: A prediction market user made $436k betting on Maduro's downfall

#48
post #40

How often are these prediction markets "correct"? Has this been studied?

It absolutely has been! In general prediction markets can’t be “correct” or “incorrect” - for instance if a prediction market says there’s a 60% chance of an event occurring, and it doesn’t occur, was the market right or wrong? Well it’s hard to say - certainly the market said the event was more likely to occur than not, but only just, and who knows? Maybe the event _only just_ occurred, and very nearly didn’t! So ge…

No, markets are evaluated on accuracy, not calibration

Re: A prediction market user made $436k betting on Maduro's downfall

#49
post #38
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not 'predicting' when the outcome/answer is known. From the wiki entry on prediction markets "The main purpose of prediction markets are eliciting aggregating beliefs about an unknown future event."

I think you should probably read more about the background of prediction markets. Robin Hanson is a useful place to start. The whole concept of a prediction market is to convert private information into prices . That only works with "insider" information.

I don't know much, but I can't see why betting on a known outcome is good? Why not just ask the knower? Also, just because Robin Hanson says "it's about aggregating insider information" makes it true. He writes some stuff.....

Re: A prediction market user made $436k betting on Maduro's downfall

#50
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or they are hedging their exposure to an unknown by betting in favor of an event that would be harmful/costly to them.

Those people want prices to accurately track risk, which is what insiders allow.

Right but they themselves are non-insiders who are rationally betting.
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