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The Great Gatsby is the most misunderstood novel (2021)

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Re: The Great Gatsby is the most misunderstood novel (2021)

#41

Post by strken »

viccis wrote: post #24

This is a very confused article, I think. The fact that people associate these extravagant roaring 20s parties with the character of Gatsby has everything to do with his character and over-the-top parties being the strongest cultural touchstone that people today have with that era, given that almost all of us (in the US at least) have to read it in high school. The fact that the aesthetic qualities of Gatsby that are…

When parts of the general public enjoy a character that the author intended to be bad, there's often a lot going on under the surface that outside critics don't realise. This results in articles that are hilariously wrong from the perspective of readers who are more familiar with the movement.

Consider Patrick Bateman. There are at least six things going on with Bateman memes: aesthetic appreciation for the movie and/or character, comedic irony, intentional contrarianism to annoy the sort of people who write articles about how much they hate Patrick Bateman, an obscure in joke, following the format without understanding the underlying work, and genuine unironic belief that he's a good guy.

If you are not familiar with the type of people who make memes about Patrick Bateman or name sandwiches after the Great Gatsby, you might misread them as misreading the work.

Re: The Great Gatsby is the most misunderstood novel (2021)

#42

Post by hydrogen7800 »

viccis wrote: post #24

This is a very confused article, I think. The fact that people associate these extravagant roaring 20s parties with the character of Gatsby has everything to do with his character and over-the-top parties being the strongest cultural touchstone that people today have with that era, given that almost all of us (in the US at least) have to read it in high school. The fact that the aesthetic qualities of Gatsby that are…

>Rappers loved Scarface and mob movies back in the 90s/00s and used to imitate those aesthetics all the time

This has always bothered me, and I don't think it's some subtle aesthetic/ironic/contrarian take either. People who I asked at the time (00s) usually had something to say about him being "self made", or something else similar. Did you (royal you) actually watch the whole movie?

Re: The Great Gatsby is the most misunderstood novel (2021)

#43

Post by KPGv2 »

strken wrote: post #41
viccis wrote: post #24

This is a very confused article, I think. The fact that people associate these extravagant roaring 20s parties with the character of Gatsby has everything to do with his character and over-the-top parties being the strongest cultural touchstone that people today have with that era, given that almost all of us (in the US at least) have to read it in high school. The fact that the aesthetic qualities of Gatsby that are…

When parts of the general public enjoy a character that the author intended to be bad, there's often a lot going on under the surface that outside critics don't realise. This results in articles that are hilariously wrong from the perspective of readers who are more familiar with the movement. Consider Patrick Bateman. There are at least six things going on with Bateman memes: aesthetic appreciation for the movie and…

Gatsby isn't supposed to be bad. He's supposed to be tragic.

The bad guys in Gatsby are Tom Buchanan and, to a lesser extent, Daisy. One might make a case that Nick is not a good person, but he's telling the story as a salve for his guilt. He's mostly just a hypocrite who doesn't want to admit he's the same kind of wealth that grinds non-wealthy people up for pleasure.

But Gatsby is a man who became obsessed with a woman and did everything he could to win her heart, including fraud. Yes, that's not good behavior, but he's not meant to be taken as a bad guy so much as someone who made some mistakes because of higher emotions.

Tom OTOH is just toxic masculinity. Fucks other women, can't stand any other guy getting attention, doesn't give a crap about people who die, etc.

Re: The Great Gatsby is the most misunderstood novel (2021)

#44

Post by ehutch79 »

rayiner wrote: post #5

I love the Great Gatsby, but I don’t understand how anyone could misunderstand the book. It’s quite a straightforward story.

If my high school English is to be believed, there isn’t a sentence that isn’t metaphor, and if you think it’s straightforward, you’re getting an F.

Re: The Great Gatsby is the most misunderstood novel (2021)

#45

Post by KPGv2 »

hutao wrote: post #6

Today, we tend to see The Great Gatsby as a work of historical literature, as it gives a window into the Roaring Twenties. However, F. Scott Fitzgerald did not set out to depict the past; he was depicting his own present. Similarly, Proust's literature is seen as a window into the French high-society of the Belle Epoque, a society in which Proust lived. Which works today do you think future generations will see as th…

"they really liked pedophile vampires for a hot minute in the 2000s"

Re: The Great Gatsby is the most misunderstood novel (2021)

#46

Post by KPGv2 »

tayo42 wrote: post #29
hutao wrote: post #6

Today, we tend to see The Great Gatsby as a work of historical literature, as it gives a window into the Roaring Twenties. However, F. Scott Fitzgerald did not set out to depict the past; he was depicting his own present. Similarly, Proust's literature is seen as a window into the French high-society of the Belle Epoque, a society in which Proust lived. Which works today do you think future generations will see as th…

Game of thrones will be. No main character is safe since Ned Stark was killed on TV. No ending was going to be good. Sopranos had a controversial ending too. Silicon Valley captured the feel of the bay area and did a good job with satire. 2000s would be easier, I think 2010 is about the switch to super hero movies.

No one even talks about GOT anymore bc the ending was so bad.

> No ending was going to be good

Why do you say that? Plenty amazing shows have great endings. And GOT isn't some uniquely incredible story. Killing MCs is not new to GOT, either, and you give that show too much credit. Lost did it long before GOT. 24. Grey's Anatomy is SUPER famous for it. They killed off like half the original cast in a single helicopter crash.

ASOIAF wasn't original bc it killed MCs. It was original bc it treated fantasy as political first, fantasy second.

Re: The Great Gatsby is the most misunderstood novel (2021)

#47

Post by kwindla »

I'm a big Gatsby fan and recommend this recent Wesley Morris podcast about the book.

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/our-last-chance-to-tal...

Morris has written some of my favorite long-form New York Times pieces, ("Willie Nelson's Long Encore", "Aretha Franklin Had Power. Did We Truly Respect It?", ), and he has the novelist Min Jin Lee and Gilbert Cruz, editor of The New York Times Book Review, as guests on the podcast to talk about why they regularly re-read Gatsby.

Min Jin Lee talks about how amazing the craft of the novel is (beyond the obvious greatness of the sentence-by-sentence writing).

A couple of months ago I was in New York and found a new cyberpunk re-telling of Gatsby called Local Heavens. A fun read if you like Fitzgerald, or re-imaginings of famous novels, or cyberpunk.

https://kmfajardo.com/local-heavens/

Re: The Great Gatsby is the most misunderstood novel (2021)

#48

Post by KPGv2 »

gleenn wrote: post #20
rayiner wrote: post #5

I love the Great Gatsby, but I don’t understand how anyone could misunderstand the book. It’s quite a straightforward story.

Um, last I remember, my English teacher's cooy was absolutely full of underlined and also colored words due to a significant amount of color symbolism. The words maybe be within reach but it's the metaphors and deeper meanings which add great depth. I would hardly consider it "straightforward".

Metaphors and beautiful language don't change the plot. The Great Gatsby can be summed up rather easily: A man named Nick moves to town and is fascinated by his wealthy neighbor, Jay Gatsby. As they get to know each other, he discovers that Gatsby is enamored with his cousin Daisy Buchanan, who is married to a complete asshole. Over time, Nick and Tom both discover that Jay is not old money but rather most likely a man who amassed wealth by participating in fraud.

Tom Buchanan and Jay fight over Daisy, and Tom's side chick is overcome with emotion and is hit by a car. Tom couldn't give a fuck about what happened bc he's a total monster who only cares about money and power. Gatsby takes the blame for the woman's death, and her widower tracks down Gatsby and murders him in revenge.

Long story short: pre-Crash capitalism was an orphan-crushing machine. Gatsby got money to pursue love and ended up dead. Buchanan had money and has little positive emotion toward anyone else in the world. Daisy is also concerned with wealth and prestige and allows herself to be mistreated by her husband and thought about leaving him for a richer man. The narrator is also wealthy, and we see him do the same bad acts he criticizes others for, making him ultimately a hypocrite.

Re: The Great Gatsby is the most misunderstood novel (2021)

#49

Post by arjie »

hutao wrote: post #6

Today, we tend to see The Great Gatsby as a work of historical literature, as it gives a window into the Roaring Twenties. However, F. Scott Fitzgerald did not set out to depict the past; he was depicting his own present. Similarly, Proust's literature is seen as a window into the French high-society of the Belle Epoque, a society in which Proust lived. Which works today do you think future generations will see as th…

The ones that most qualify for me are:

* Minecraft: This will probably hold the position Pac Man holds to us. Single biggest culture-marker perhaps.

* Taylor Swift: She's like Michael Jackson was (perhaps because of access and audience size improvements)

I don't know if Wikipedia or the mainline social media websites would count. People remember The Myspace Era. Tumblr and Twitter have reputations for their culture but would they be classics? Hard to tell.

Re: The Great Gatsby is the most misunderstood novel (2021)

#50

Post by KPGv2 »

sharkjacobs wrote: post #36
kazinator wrote: post #3

> The thought crossed my mind that it would be really interesting if someone were to write Nick's story," he says. In 2014, by then a published author in his 40s, he sat down to do just that, telling neither his agent nor his editor. It was only when he delivered the manuscript 10 months later that he learned copyright law meant he'd have to wait until 2021 to publish it. WTf? Can't write an original spin off on some…

copyright law has been pretty goofy for a pretty long time now > The Conan Doyle Estate filed a lawsuit against Netflix over [Enola Holmes (2020)], claiming it violated copyright by depicting Sherlock Holmes as having emotions. They argued this aspect of the character did not fall under the public domain as he was only described as having emotions in stories published between 1923 and 1927, and the copyright for the…

This was a nuisance lawsuit, and Netflix only settled to make it go away. They would've crushed the Estate if it actually went to trial.
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