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Real Biological Clock Is You're Going to Die (2018)

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Re: Real Biological Clock Is You're Going to Die (2018)

#41

Post by chadcmulligan »

rokhayakebe wrote: post #28

I feel we should have children as early as possible between 18 and 30, but we should also stay together with our parents. Grandparents can raise their grandchildren. They would do a better job. The problem is now everyone wants to go on their own, separate from the community, then call modern life difficult.

I read a book that discusses this - "The Weirdest People in the World: How the West Became Psychologically Peculiar and Particularly Prosperous" by Joseph Henrich. I found it interesting though I've heard some criticisms of it.

Re: Real Biological Clock Is You're Going to Die (2018)

#43

Post by michaelt »

tqi wrote: post #5

While I understand and empathize with what this article is getting at ("If you intend to have children, but you don’t intend to have them just yet, you are not banking extra years as a person who is still too young to have children. You are subtracting years from the time you will share the world with your children."), I strongly disagree. I think people should have kids when they are ready. Make an assessment to the…

> I think people should have kids when they are ready. Make an assessment to the best of their ability when exactly that time has arrived.

While I kinda agree with this, I've known some folks whose standard for 'ready' was a lot higher than previous generations/other cultures.

For example, I could get a folding desk, move my home office into my bedroom, and put 3 kids in bunk beds in one room.

Or I could say I'm not ready to have kids as I only have a 2 bedroom home, whereas in a few years time I'll be able to afford a bigger place.

Re: Real Biological Clock Is You're Going to Die (2018)

#44

Post by pseudocomposer »

nrhrjrjrjtntbt wrote: post #40

I (male) was very lucky and this made me realise. Had kids lateish (30) but that is due to finding soneone to do that with took that long. Being shy etc. But now I feel in 40s I am too old to have a baby! I glad I didnt wait too long. Or dont have kids at all which is fine and max on the freedom to do whatever life. I think I agree decide if you want kids then if so have them early as possible but under proviso of a…

Out of curiosity, what kind of physical shape are you in? I’m nearing 40 and have wanted kids my entire life, but similarly, haven’t found the right partner. If I ever felt I was too old to have kids I’d probably have no choice but to kill myself. But I’m also in excellent physical shape and feel no physically different than I did in my 20s (other than being stronger and more coordinated now).

Re: Real Biological Clock Is You're Going to Die (2018)

#45

Post by nrhrjrjrjtntbt »

rand846633 wrote: post #13
sublinear wrote: post #6

> But this idea of certainty is a sham, a distraction, something to turn your attention away from the only truly certain thing, which is that your time will run out. I hard disagree with this entire blog post. What an incredibly depressing, judgmental, and self-centered way to live life. It doesn't matter when you do things as long as you are satisfied with the results. You should focus more on deeply appreciating al…

Funny, for me the article reads like a ode to saying yes to life, not the other way round..

I see it as an argument to have kids earlier, which is rare outside of just "cus we did in our day". I feel there was a cut off maybe 90s someone has a baby you honour them 2000s onwards you feel sorry for them! Everyone wants freedom and pleasure because nothing lasts forever (!). So within agnostic/atheist etc. with the no kids movement it is good to have a balance and then people decide what to do. Make a decision considering the tradeoff.

Re: Real Biological Clock Is You're Going to Die (2018)

#46

Post by 1659447091 »

moultano wrote: post #9
tqi wrote: post #5

While I understand and empathize with what this article is getting at ("If you intend to have children, but you don’t intend to have them just yet, you are not banking extra years as a person who is still too young to have children. You are subtracting years from the time you will share the world with your children."), I strongly disagree. I think people should have kids when they are ready. Make an assessment to the…

I think most great parents didn't feel ready, and in some sense not feeling ready is evidence of the kind of conscientiousness that makes you a great parent. I think it is a valuable service to push people who want kids but aren't sure when to have them to have them earlier than they otherwise would. You never know how difficult it will be for you until you start trying.

> I think most great parents didn't feel ready

What makes a great parent?

Providing food, clothes, health and shelter? My parents weren't ready. I interrupted my fathers dream he was on track for, but only later learned about by doing the math in his rare moments of nostalgia after a cancer diagnosis and given a handful of years to live. My parents did a hard pivot and worked 3-5 jobs between them at any given time to make ends meet because his sense of duty to the family he wasn't ready for. I rarely saw or interacted with them, but gained valuable experience in navigating the world independently and being responsible for myself. I had good parents -- I was fed, clothed, housed and healthy enough to make it to adulthood and move out on my own after high school.

This part stuck out:

There are good reasons to wait, [...] My children have not had to live with parents who are working 15-hour days, the way we worked in our 20s, or who are financially desperate, as we might have been if we’d been paying for children on the salaries of our 20s. Our professional standing allows us to skip work for pediatric appointments or parent-teacher conferences. [...] I got a promotion [...] when it was time to buy a piano. We all sit down together for home-cooked meals most evenings and talk about things.

That must be nice, but I wouldn't know. My youngest sibling does though, their grandchildren knew that with them when they were younger too. My parents finally built up the stability that gave them time -- as I was on my way out. I have no idea who they are, nor they me, that was not our relationship -- I had that with my grandfather, but only briefly. And I would not trade that decade for anything in the world, except maybe to have had that with my parents, even if only for a few years to get to know as a child should. My youngest sibling got the great parents because they were ready to be by that time.

You get to be a great parent because you can spend time with your kids -- whether you "felt" ready or not you were, but maybe consider that's because the time you waited gave you the time to spend with them. You're looking at it in terms of maximizing years. Having more years doesn't mean anything if they can't be quality years.

Re: Real Biological Clock Is You're Going to Die (2018)

#47

Post by nrhrjrjrjtntbt »

pseudocomposer wrote: post #44
nrhrjrjrjtntbt wrote: post #40

I (male) was very lucky and this made me realise. Had kids lateish (30) but that is due to finding soneone to do that with took that long. Being shy etc. But now I feel in 40s I am too old to have a baby! I glad I didnt wait too long. Or dont have kids at all which is fine and max on the freedom to do whatever life. I think I agree decide if you want kids then if so have them early as possible but under proviso of a…

Out of curiosity, what kind of physical shape are you in? I’m nearing 40 and have wanted kids my entire life, but similarly, haven’t found the right partner. If I ever felt I was too old to have kids I’d probably have no choice but to kill myself. But I’m also in excellent physical shape and feel no physically different than I did in my 20s (other than being stronger and more coordinated now).

I have health issues so there is that. I think most 40 yo if they go to the gym on a good routine can have the energy. Add in a reasonable job (not an AI startup with a hammock in the kitchen). But 40 you are rolling the dice. 40+ you can die from things and it is not unheard of. It is quite old in a way. You can also have issues unexpectedly that depleat capacity.

Just reread your comment. Don't kill yourself!!! Help raise your niece or nephew or friends kids. You can pass on social inheritence! And you can work in a cube at Google and send half the money to kids charities.

Re: Real Biological Clock Is You're Going to Die (2018)

#48

Post by leeoniya »

pseudocomposer wrote: post #44
nrhrjrjrjtntbt wrote: post #40

I (male) was very lucky and this made me realise. Had kids lateish (30) but that is due to finding soneone to do that with took that long. Being shy etc. But now I feel in 40s I am too old to have a baby! I glad I didnt wait too long. Or dont have kids at all which is fine and max on the freedom to do whatever life. I think I agree decide if you want kids then if so have them early as possible but under proviso of a…

Out of curiosity, what kind of physical shape are you in? I’m nearing 40 and have wanted kids my entire life, but similarly, haven’t found the right partner. If I ever felt I was too old to have kids I’d probably have no choice but to kill myself. But I’m also in excellent physical shape and feel no physically different than I did in my 20s (other than being stronger and more coordinated now).

> If I ever felt I was too old to have kids I’d probably have no choice but to kill myself

sperm quantity and quality decreases with age. studies exist that suggest higher risk of autism when father's age >= 45.

you're not too old, but you should probably test & freeze some good sperm before you might actually be too old by the time you find the right person. this way you won't ever feel like you're too old to have kids. then the question becomes more of "how long and in what manner will my remaining health allow me to enjoy them"

Re: Real Biological Clock Is You're Going to Die (2018)

#49

Post by fruitworks »

aziaziazi wrote: post #30
duttish wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For decades the discussion in schools have been around "this is how you avoid unwanted pregnancy", safe sex and all of that. With our(northern Europe) crashing fertility rate there's now also discussions about adding on "when the woman is 25 this happens and you're this likely to get pregnant, at 30 it's like this...", just so that people can plan and try for the family they want. If one wants 3 kids and don't want I…

> But who's financially secure at 25? Those backed up by their government?

it's dysgenic to enable reproduction through welfare. Better to create an economy where young people can start families off of their own labor.

Re: Real Biological Clock Is You're Going to Die (2018)

#50

Post by ahf8Aithaex7Nai »

I like the text. A few additions: not everyone has to have children. Not all of us have the opportunity to do so. It is possible to live a fulfilling life even if you have not brought children into the world. If you do not have children and it is foreseeable that you will not have any, do not let anyone convince you that you are doomed to a marginal existence. A child does not only need parents. It also needs other adults: uncles, aunts, neighbors, teachers, etc. Children need a healthy society, and everyone who contributes to this is contributing to the well-being of children. For my taste, the text also lacks a political component. Parenting is not just a personal project. It is also a service to society. The parents of a child are raising a person who will participate productively in the economy of the future. It annoys me that this is treated as a free side effect. When you realize this connection, parenthood as an imperative for personal fulfillment takes on a strong ideological connotation. The fact that so many people remain childless today is a failure at the societal level and should not be compensated for by appeals at the individual level.
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