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Hacking Washing Machines [video]

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Re: Hacking Washing Machines [video]

#41

Post by nicolaslem »

atoav wrote: post #25
bri3d wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LG appliances at least used to use acoustic signaling for diagnostics: hold a phone up and the washer makes some modem-esque (I think it’s 4-tone / 4-FSK) noises and the app or technician can diagnose issues. It was originally engineered to even work over voice codecs, so a customer without a smartphone could relay the diagnostic session to a technician.

The absolutely "leetest" thing I have ever seen was a device where the firmware update was to be done by: 1. Hold a button while booting (pretty normal) 2. This reconfigures the circuit path of one of the LEDs so it is reverse-biased to VCC via its resistor and switches one of the microcontroller GPIOs to ADC input 3. You go to a website that plays a strobe pattern (encoding the firmware) 4. You hold that website in…

Another example of firmware update reusing something that is already there: some electric guitar effects from TC Electronics can be reprogrammed by bringing a phone close to the guitar pickups. The phone app encodes the data as sound that is picked up by the guitar pickups and sent down the chain to the effect.

Re: Hacking Washing Machines [video]

#42

Post by grepfru_it »

imglorp wrote: post #40
noAnswer wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The support hotline will ask you to hold your phone towards the device. It is less error-prone (than a human) and contains more info than a blink code. I find it really clever.

Sure it's clever. But it also means you can't repair the appliance without the manufacturer's server to decode it for you.

Owner of an LG washer that failed here.

All the same diagnostics you can do at the machine, the phone home service allowed a remote engineer to diagnose as well. Things like drum rpm, tilt/knock sensors, uneven balance detection. Instead of paying a human $250 to come out and press buttons, they can do it remotely.

I understand in the pessimistic age of John Deere, all remote diagnostics are bad, but that is not the case here. I was able to do all of the diagnosis myself to determine it was a bad stator and then replace it myself.

Re: Hacking Washing Machines [video]

#43

Post by thesuitonym »

imglorp wrote: post #40
noAnswer wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The support hotline will ask you to hold your phone towards the device. It is less error-prone (than a human) and contains more info than a blink code. I find it really clever.

Sure it's clever. But it also means you can't repair the appliance without the manufacturer's server to decode it for you.

It doesn't require a server, it just requires knowing what the codes mean, same as blinking lights.

Decoding it without help would be difficult for the average consumer, but it's not an impossible task.

Re: Hacking Washing Machines [video]

#44

Post by nephihaha »

barrkel wrote: post #38
nephihaha wrote: post #34

What is the point in the WiFi? All I am interested in is something that washes my clothes. Not something with endless updates and glitches that ger fixed in post.

It'll tell you when your clothes have finished washing so you can transfer them to the dryer and/or start a new load.

I can do that without WiFi. So what is the point other than data harvesting?

Re: Hacking Washing Machines [video]

#45

Post by bigstrat2003 »

nephihaha wrote: post #44
barrkel wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It'll tell you when your clothes have finished washing so you can transfer them to the dryer and/or start a new load.

I can do that without WiFi. So what is the point other than data harvesting?

Depending on your house setup you might not be able to. My washer and dryer are in my basement, and I can't hear them at all (neither when they are running, nor the sound they make when they finish). Moreover, the timer listed on the machine when you start the cycle is not accurate (particularly for the dryer, which is frequently off by 30+ minutes). This means that I have no idea when my clothes are done except by going to the basement to check. That's not the end of the world, but it would be genuinely nice to be able to get them on my wireless network and have them send me a notification.

Perhaps that doesn't apply to you and how your home is set up. Fair enough. But that doesn't mean the use case doesn't exist.

Re: Hacking Washing Machines [video]

#47

Post by ThomasMidgley »

We have a Thermomix TM31 which I repaired a few weeks ago. On the control board I found an IR module and a LED beside that which both are visible from outside (left side of the display), but are not labled. Until now I couldn't find any documentation or information about this IR interface. It would be nice if someone will reverse engineer this. And maybe also an integration into the BSH-App. Then you could remotely start the cooking process when leaving the office... :-)

Re: Hacking Washing Machines [video]

#48

Post by stevenjgarner »

nephihaha wrote: post #34

What is the point in the WiFi? All I am interested in is something that washes my clothes. Not something with endless updates and glitches that ger fixed in post.

As we enter a world of robotics, some users may also find it useful to have their robots directly access their "appliances", including with "retro" appliances that do not adhere to some future interoperability standard. I remember way back when I had a Heathkit HERO-1, it had a built-in solderless breadboard on the robot’s head. I remember the total thrill of programming it that and the Radio Frequency (RF) Remote Control to turn off my bedroom light. Kind of a "hello" program moment for me.

Re: Hacking Washing Machines [video]

#49

Post by hagbard_c »

nephihaha wrote: post #34

What is the point in the WiFi? All I am interested in is something that washes my clothes. Not something with endless updates and glitches that ger fixed in post.

My current (Bosch) washer does not have WiFi but I can see one use for it: make the machine start the cycle when electricity is cheapest. That usually is somewhere in the middle of the night, at other times in the middle of the day but generally not when I'm there to press some button. Since electricity prices directly correlate with power demand it makes sense to run these appliances when there is a power surplus and not when everyone just comes home and starts turning on their devices.

Of course I would never, ever give devices like this access to the 'net, not even for a few seconds. What 'smart' devices I have around usually run firmware which I installed on them, replacing whatever leaky spyware they came with from the factory. The only exception to this rule is the Fronius inverter which runs its original firmware but just like all other 'smart' things it lives in its own enclave and never got a single bit from or to the 'net. All communications goes through proxies which are under my control, there are no automatic firmware upgrades, no information leaks, no nothing - we live on a farm in the Swedish countryside so there is chance for any 'smart' device to surreptitiously hop onto an open WiFi-network either. Maybe I'll have a look at adding some ESP32-powered wifi functionality to the washer and dishwasher so I can integrate them into the (OpenHAB-powered) control system I use for controlling all things electronic here, something to do for a snowy day?

Re: Hacking Washing Machines [video]

#50

Post by nephihaha »

bigstrat2003 wrote: post #45
nephihaha wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can do that without WiFi. So what is the point other than data harvesting?

Depending on your house setup you might not be able to. My washer and dryer are in my basement, and I can't hear them at all (neither when they are running, nor the sound they make when they finish). Moreover, the timer listed on the machine when you start the cycle is not accurate (particularly for the dryer, which is frequently off by 30+ minutes). This means that I have no idea when my clothes are done except by g…

I'd just time it and go down. I wouldn't want my devices to start messaging me. Already have enough problem with vague acquaintances doing so.
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