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Asking Gemini 3 to generate Brainfuck code results in an infinite loop

teodordyakov.github.io

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Re: Asking Gemini 3 to generate Brainfuck code results in an infinite loop

#41

Post by weatherlite »

neonbjb wrote: post #36

> So it made me wonder. Is Brainf*ck the ultimate test for AGI? Absolutely not. Id bet a lot of money this could be solved with a decent amount of RL compute. None of the stated problems are actually issues with LLMs after on policy training is performed.

> None of the stated problems are actually issues with LLMs after on policy training is performed

But still , isnt it a major weakness they have to RL on everything that has not much data? That really weakens the attempt to make it true AGI.

Re: Asking Gemini 3 to generate Brainfuck code results in an infinite loop

#42

Post by mananaysiempre »

codetiger wrote: post #12
TeodorDyakov wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am sorry if it appears that it was written by AI - I wrote a draft and used AI to assist me since English, is not my first language. I asked it only to format but it has seemed to change the tone and the expressions too '.'

All of a sudden, internet is full of people who hate AI written articles. A few months back, my article got a lot of haters because I used AI tools to improve my draft. Being a non-english first language person, I don't see an issue. But I wish AI improves to an extend where draft to complete articles don't look AI written.

> A few months back, my article got a lot of haters because I used AI tools to improve my draft. Being a non-english first language person, I don't see an issue.

(Speaking as another ESL user: )

Try doing something similar in your first language and I think you’ll see the issue, especially if you arrange for the model input to be somewhat flawed (e.g. roundtrip it through a machine-translation tool first). The “edited” writing is extremely generic by default and feels bad even if you adjust the prompt. It’s the kind of aggressively bland that you get from a high schooler who was extensively trained to write essays but doesn’t actually read books, except even the most beat-down of high schoolers can’t help but let their imagination shine through sometimes, while the chat models have been subjugated much more effectively.

Also, well, it’s a social marker. Language is a mess of social markers: there’s no fundamental reason why reducing this vowel should be OK but reducing that one should be “sloppy” and low-class. And AI writing (which undeniably has a particular flavour) is hit by a double whammy of being used by people who don’t really care to write (and don’t have a taste for good writing) and having been tuned by people who tried to make it as inoffensive as it could possibly be to any social group they could think of (and don’t have a taste for good writing). Is that unfair, especially to non-native speakers? All of language learning is unfair. Always has been.

Re: Asking Gemini 3 to generate Brainfuck code results in an infinite loop

#43

Post by hdgvhicv »

rjh29 wrote: post #15
perching_aix wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mhmm, so chilling. Cause word filters aren't as old as computing itself...

The trend of self-censoring words like 'dead' and 'kill' appears to be relatively new, motivated by TikTok and YouTube algorithms, but spilling over into the general internet.

The sewer section of sites like the daily mail has been needlessly censoring words for well over a decade

Re: Asking Gemini 3 to generate Brainfuck code results in an infinite loop

#44

Post by hdgvhicv »

drstewart wrote: post #24
hdgvhicv wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chilling effects. Western culture is taken over by American Puritian values thanks to the globlaisation of the media.

Puritans were English protestants. I think you mean to say it's being taken over by European values.

Puritans were kicked out of Europe for their views

Re: Asking Gemini 3 to generate Brainfuck code results in an infinite loop

#45

Post by tromp »

tgv wrote: post #40
boerseth wrote: post #23

> Brainf*ck is the antithesis of modern software engineering. There are no comments, no meaningful variable names, and no structure That's not true. From the little time I've spent trying to read and write some simple programs in BF, I recall good examples being pretty legible. In fact, because the language only relies on those few characters, anything else you type becomes a comment. Linebreaks, whitespace, alphanum…

To me, that's still unreadable. While the intention of the code may be documented, it's pretty hard to understand if that "+" is really correct, or if that " ". I can't even understand if a comment starts or terminates a particular piece of code. BTW, how come there are dashes in the comment?

The initial long comment starts with the [ command and ends with the ] command so it forms a loop that is executed while the current cell is nonzero. But initially, all tape cells are zero, so the whole loop is in fact skipped.

Readability is a spectrum. The brainfuck code is still somewhat readable compared to for instance this Binary Lambda Calculus program:

00010001100110010100011010000000010110000010010001010111110111101001000110100001110011010000000000101101110011100111111101111000000001111100110111000000101100000110110

or even the lambda term λ(λ1(1((λ11)(λλλ1(λλ1)((λ441((λ11)(λ2(11))))(λλλλ13(2(64)))))(λλλ4(13)))))(λλ1(λλ2)2) it encodes.

Re: Asking Gemini 3 to generate Brainfuck code results in an infinite loop

#47

Post by weli »

bdg wrote: post #38

I wonder if going the other way, maxing out semantic density per token, would improve LLM ability (perhaps even cost). We use naturally evolved human languages for most of the training, and programming follows that logic to some degree, but what if the LLMs were working in a highly complex information dense company like Ithkuil? If it stumbles on BF, what happens with the other extreme? Or was this result really abou…

I wonder the same. I think a language like pascal is more semantically rich than C-like languages. Something like:

   unit a;

   interface

     function bar(something: Integer): Integer;

   implementation

     uses b;

     var
       foo: Boolean;

     function bar(something: Integer): Integer;
      begin
        repeat
           Result := b.code(something);
        until Result  0;
      end;

    end.
Probably holds more semantically significant tokens than the C-counterpart.

But with LLM's the problem's gotta be training data. But if there was as much training data in Pascal as there is in C it would be pretty cool to see benchmarks, I have a hunch Pascal would do better.

(Sorry for the bad pascal I haven't programmed in ages)

Re: Asking Gemini 3 to generate Brainfuck code results in an infinite loop

#48

Post by TiredOfLife »

hdgvhicv wrote: post #5
TeodorDyakov wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Visibilty - i have no idea if there are censoring algorithms at play anywhere.

Chilling effects. Western culture is taken over by American Puritian values thanks to the globlaisation of the media.

TIL TikTok is american.

Re: Asking Gemini 3 to generate Brainfuck code results in an infinite loop

#49

Post by ACCount37 »

egeozcan wrote: post #19

Gemini is very prone to go into an infinite loop. Sometimes, it even happens with Google's own vibe coding IDE (Antigravity): https://bsky.app/profile/egeozcan.bsky.social/post/3maxzi4gs...

All LLMs are, it's an innate thing. Google just sucks at the kind of long context training you need to do to mitigate that.

Re: Asking Gemini 3 to generate Brainfuck code results in an infinite loop

#50

Post by [deleted] »

martin-t wrote: post #20
rjh29 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The trend of self-censoring words like 'dead' and 'kill' appears to be relatively new, motivated by TikTok and YouTube algorithms, but spilling over into the general internet.

Correlation is not causation but I challenge anyone to come up with a different cause: https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&q=tiktok,u... https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&q=unalive&...

[deleted]
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