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How I think about Kubernetes

garnaudov.com

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Re: How I think about Kubernetes

#41

Post by welliebobs »

bigstrat2003 wrote: post #17
websiteapi wrote: post #4

I always wonder if things can be simpler. When you think of a really simple DB you think of SQLite. What's the really simple K8s? Even doing a single node deployment these days seems complicate with Prometheus, Grafana, etc. etc. docker/podman compose up with quadlets and all of this stuff just seems so eh. I really like the idea of something like Firebase, but it never seems to work out or just move the complexity t…

> What's the really simple K8s? It's k3s. You drop a single binary onto the node, run it, and you have a fully functional one-node k8s cluster.

You can find even more simplicity in Talos Linux[1]. Drop an ISO onto a USB, run a handful of commands[2] to generate and apply a configuration, and you've got a cluster up and running.

[1] https://www.talos.dev/

[2] https://docs.siderolabs.com/talos/v1.12/getting-started/gett...

Re: How I think about Kubernetes

#42

Post by EdwardDiego »

liampulles wrote: post #33

On the use of GitOps for k8s, I think it makes sense for application workloads, and less sense for raw infrastructure definitions (unless you are running at such a scale that your infrastructure is often scaled like an application). For my infrastructure definition repo, I will apply it in my terminal with kubectl, watch, and then merge the PR/commit to master. I often need to do this progressively just to roll back…

When you say infrastructure in this context, are you referring to the actual K8s cluster infra?

Or is it what I tend to call "intra-cluster infra" - DBs / Prometheus / Kafka etc. Infra that support apps?

Re: How I think about Kubernetes

#43

Post by EdwardDiego »

liampulles wrote: post #34
websiteapi wrote: post #4

I always wonder if things can be simpler. When you think of a really simple DB you think of SQLite. What's the really simple K8s? Even doing a single node deployment these days seems complicate with Prometheus, Grafana, etc. etc. docker/podman compose up with quadlets and all of this stuff just seems so eh. I really like the idea of something like Firebase, but it never seems to work out or just move the complexity t…

One of the issues is that the open source Helm charts (or whatever) for something like Grafana do not come out-of-the-box with good config. I spent a significant amount of time a little while ago reading blogs to get Grafana to use up to date indexing algorithms, and better settings, etc. Considering these companies make money when you use their hosted solution, this is not surprising, and it just goes to show TANSTA…

I like to use operators for intra-cluster infra, they tend to offer a "sorta-managed" experience. I'll use a Helm chart deployed by ArgoCD to provision the operator, then go from there - mainly because I try to limit Helm usage as much as possible.

Re: How I think about Kubernetes

#44

Post by postalrat »

I think many people have the wrong idea what a container is (or i do) and make it sound more exotic than it is. Sure they have some level of isolation but for someone learning this stuff its better to think of them as just a process, like all the other processes running on your computer. And kubernetes as a system that runs and networks processes running on multiple computers.

Re: How I think about Kubernetes

#45

Post by NewJazz »

antonvs wrote: post #36
zsoltkacsandi wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's right there: > the source of most of the problems I've seen with infrastructures using Kubernetes came from exactly this kind of approach But some more concrete stories: Once, while I was on call, I got paged because a Kubernetes node was running out of disk space. The root cause was the logging pipeline. Normally, debugging a "no space left on device" issue in a logging pipeline is fairly straightforward, if th…

You mention a questionably designed custom operator and an add-on from a SIG. This is like blaming Linux for the UI in Gimp.

I'd also argue the whole external DNS thing could have happened with any dynamic DNS automation... And yes it is a completely optional add-on!

Re: How I think about Kubernetes

#46

Post by NewJazz »

postalrat wrote: post #44

I think many people have the wrong idea what a container is (or i do) and make it sound more exotic than it is. Sure they have some level of isolation but for someone learning this stuff its better to think of them as just a process, like all the other processes running on your computer. And kubernetes as a system that runs and networks processes running on multiple computers.

Well, a group of processes... With some separation between them. Like you can't listen on localhost and call from another pod. But with processes you can do that. Same thing with UDS.

Re: How I think about Kubernetes

#47

Post by NewJazz »

paddw wrote: post #23

> Thinking of Kubernetes as a runtime for declarative infrastructure instead of a mere orchestrator results in very practical approaches to operate your cluster. This is a pretty good definition. I think part of the challenge is the evolution of K8s over time sometimes makes it feel less like a coherent runtime and more like a pile of glue amalgamated from several different components all stuck together. That and you…

Sometimes the interfaces are clear and consistent (loadbalancers, for example) and the line between, e.g., an AWS NLB and your ingress gateway, is clear-cut.

Other times there is a significant degree of portability pains and sparse feature matrices (CSI, IME).

Re: How I think about Kubernetes

#48

Post by NewJazz »

dkdcio wrote: post #40
JCattheATM wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Over-engineering to solve a problem that doesn't exist, thereby making one.

sure…what’s the motivation? is this seriously that difficult of a question to answer? this “solution” was put in place for a reason, what’s the reason? does nobody actually know?

Someone was annoyed by certain cliche titles I guess. They also remove numbers.

So if you post "1850 Bloody Island Massacre" it removes the number. But it is meant to remove eg. "13 reasons why you should impeac[...]" B/c apparently the number of reasons why is too much of a cliche or bother? Idk.

Email dang haha

Re: How I think about Kubernetes

#49

Post by postalrat »

NewJazz wrote: post #46
postalrat wrote: post #44

I think many people have the wrong idea what a container is (or i do) and make it sound more exotic than it is. Sure they have some level of isolation but for someone learning this stuff its better to think of them as just a process, like all the other processes running on your computer. And kubernetes as a system that runs and networks processes running on multiple computers.

Well, a group of processes... With some separation between them. Like you can't listen on localhost and call from another pod. But with processes you can do that. Same thing with UDS.

Yea they have forms of isolation. Like all processes. Trying to explain all that just adds complexity.

Re: How I think about Kubernetes

#50

Post by NewJazz »

postalrat wrote: post #49
NewJazz wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, a group of processes... With some separation between them. Like you can't listen on localhost and call from another pod. But with processes you can do that. Same thing with UDS.

Yea they have forms of isolation. Like all processes. Trying to explain all that just adds complexity.

Ignoring it isn't helpful IMO.

Traditional Unix processes don't have isolation mechanics equivalent to that of containers/namespaces.

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