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Phoenix: A modern X server written from scratch in Zig

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Re: Phoenix: A modern X server written from scratch in Zig

#41

Post by vidarh »

sho_hn wrote: post #23
wmf wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For people who absolutely have to have X11 this looks like a better plan than XLibre.

It depends on whether their reasons for "absolutely having to have X11" hinge on actual compatibility with e.g. old binaries or wanting full remoting without streaming pixels. This project would satisfy people who really actually want Wayland, but were upset by transitional pains or interactions they had around it and want to stick with X11 just-cause while getting some similar benefits. This arguably does describe s…

I don't "actually want Wayland" because I want the simplicity of X and the ability to run my own wm, but I have no need for legacy X11 requests, for some values of "legacy". Whether this will become viable for me remains to be seen, but I need very little from my X11 server.

Re: Phoenix: A modern X server written from scratch in Zig

#42

Post by quesera »

hitex wrote: post #29
quesera wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(tangent) This is true, although entertainingly, the "server" part has always been easily confused. In X11, the "server" runs on your local machine, and the "client" frequently runs on a remote system.

The server runs on the machine that allows clients to connect to it. What is the confusing part about this?

I think the confusion is obvious, given a little empathy for the range of people who use computers.

The server is usually a remote machine, especially back in the time when "client-server" architecture was emerging in mainstream (business) vernacular.

Re: Phoenix: A modern X server written from scratch in Zig

#43

Post by ddtaylor »

sho_hn wrote: post #26
vzaliva wrote: post #24

Multiple screens support is listed as non-goal. Would that prevent its usage with window managers which support virtiaul desktops? I am i3 user and it is a critical feature for me.

In short: No. In X11 "screen" has a particular meaning, and only supporting a single screen doesn't preclude multi-monitor support or virtual desktops.

Is this why back in the day sometimes a Linux distro would have a multi-monitor setup where each monitor was an actual different desktop cube for example. There was a time when each window for an Nvidia graphics card in that type of configuration could not be moved from one screen to another, etc.

Re: Phoenix: A modern X server written from scratch in Zig

#44

Post by sho_hn »

ddtaylor wrote: post #43
sho_hn wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In short: No. In X11 "screen" has a particular meaning, and only supporting a single screen doesn't preclude multi-monitor support or virtual desktops.

Is this why back in the day sometimes a Linux distro would have a multi-monitor setup where each monitor was an actual different desktop cube for example. There was a time when each window for an Nvidia graphics card in that type of configuration could not be moved from one screen to another, etc.

Yep!

Re: Phoenix: A modern X server written from scratch in Zig

#45

Post by sho_hn »

vidarh wrote: post #41
sho_hn wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends on whether their reasons for "absolutely having to have X11" hinge on actual compatibility with e.g. old binaries or wanting full remoting without streaming pixels. This project would satisfy people who really actually want Wayland, but were upset by transitional pains or interactions they had around it and want to stick with X11 just-cause while getting some similar benefits. This arguably does describe s…

I don't "actually want Wayland" because I want the simplicity of X and the ability to run my own wm, but I have no need for legacy X11 requests, for some values of "legacy". Whether this will become viable for me remains to be seen, but I need very little from my X11 server.

Fair! Though I'm actually not sure I understand what you mean with simplicity. X11 is so vastly more complicated than Wayland.

Re: Phoenix: A modern X server written from scratch in Zig

#46

Post by MangoToupe »

redeeman wrote: post #33
ccakes wrote: post #13

This is a great project! I like and use Wayland but the portal protocols and extension mechanism does leave a lot to be desired. Wayland is still quite a way behind Windows and macOS in terms of what productivity users need An X11 rewrite with some security baked in is an awesome approach. Will be watching!

BS, windows and macos cant even do proper window managing for a start, and then it just goes downwards from there on.. You can perhaps install various weird third party things, but it does not come with it by default. If you took people who absolutely never tried any computing, and gave them macos, windows, and for example Plasma, they would NOT consider windows or macos to be ready for the desktop. If you go 15 year…

[flagged]

Re: Phoenix: A modern X server written from scratch in Zig

#47

Post by vidarh »

sho_hn wrote: post #45
vidarh wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't "actually want Wayland" because I want the simplicity of X and the ability to run my own wm, but I have no need for legacy X11 requests, for some values of "legacy". Whether this will become viable for me remains to be seen, but I need very little from my X11 server.

Fair! Though I'm actually not sure I understand what you mean with simplicity. X11 is so vastly more complicated than Wayland.

For the server/compositor.

Not for the client, or if you want to write a wm and is forced to write a compositor.

And actually I'm not even even convinced about the server if talking about a minimal server like this that insists on DRI/GBM, and ditches all the old rendering cruft.

Re: Phoenix: A modern X server written from scratch in Zig

#48

Post by bdhcuidbebe »

reactordev wrote: post #30
drpixie wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought for a long time that rather than move to Wayland, we could come up with a tidied-up version of X. Sounds like a good and useful project, I hope it progresses.

I thought this too and originally thought that’s what Wayland was going to do but it went off and did its own thing. I’m all for an X12.

Be the change you want to see.

Also happy winter solstice.

Re: Phoenix: A modern X server written from scratch in Zig

#49

Post by AndyKelley »

As the application author you can set the release mode in the build script so that the release flag looks like `zig build --release` instead, and the user doesn't choose the optimization mode.

As a user you can pass `--release` to `zig build` to request release mode. If the application doesn't want to pick for you, you'll get an error and then you can pick for yourself.

In this case, it looks like the author of Phoenix wants to choose ReleaseSafe as the official release mode of the application.

Phoenix is the name of my hometown, btw.

Re: Phoenix: A modern X server written from scratch in Zig

#50

Post by bdhcuidbebe »

quesera wrote: post #42
hitex wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The server runs on the machine that allows clients to connect to it. What is the confusing part about this?

I think the confusion is obvious, given a little empathy for the range of people who use computers. The server is usually a remote machine, especially back in the time when "client-server" architecture was emerging in mainstream (business) vernacular.

The server is not usually a remote machine. The server is the app accepting remote connections.

This has been true for decades.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Server_(computing)

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