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How Studying Body Language Changed the Way I Socialize

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Re: How Studying Body Language Changed the Way I Socialize

#41

Post by wccrawford »

I appear to be the odd man out, here.

I have always felt empathy for others. I've always been able to put myself in their shoes.

I went through my "Neo in the Matrix" period long, long ago. Long before the Matrix came out. I was able to manipulate people like it was nothing.

One day, I realized how unethical that was. I was toying with other people for my own ends.

And so, like a comic book character, I started using my powers for good. When I manipulate people now, it's for their good, not mine. For example, people generally do not take advice, no matter how good it is. But you can manipulate them into it. Like Inception, you have to make it at least partially their idea. You ask them pointed questions that have only 1 answer. Of course, they'll come up with that answer. It's now their idea.

Strong-willed people can still resist it. But these are the people that have always been hardest to help, anyhow. If you've tried your best, you can't feel bad for failing to help them. They simply won't let you.

Re: How Studying Body Language Changed the Way I Socialize

#42

Post by crag »

I always had trouble figuring out how to behave or what to say in public settings. Trying my best to be the nicest guy in the room, but ending up coming off aloof and arrogant.

Until I learned the fine art of chit-chat.

I had an old Army buddy who was a master at chit-chat. He was a lawyer, of course. Anyway he'd drag me to parties, take me by the arm and work the room. It was an amazing show. Listening to his conversations and watching his body language I learned how to be non-offensive and how it was ok to talk about nothing important at all.

And that was my biggest huddle; learning that most people in social settings don't want to be serious. That that wasn't the point.

Re: How Studying Body Language Changed the Way I Socialize

#43

Post by corporalagumbo »

the_cat_kittles wrote: post #15
corporalagumbo wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not knowing much about your situation, here are some general tips that may or may not be useful. Also, recommending again Daniel Goleman's work for developing basic social literacy. 1) Be happy about the size of your social circle. Some people think they have to run out and make lots of friends as quickly as possible. I think it's better to hang out with the people you know and work on just having a good attitude. Mo…

Thanks for the thoughtful words. Based on my text alone, I can see how these would apply. I think I know all these things intellectually. I probably put most of them into practice. I wonder if a big part of the problem is I work from home, and I work all the time. Or is that symptom? You deserve serious kudos for the list, regardless.

Perhaps if work is something you find so absorbing and such an important part of your life, any natural social solution would develop from your work interest. I don't know what you do, but are there any ways you could meet up with people doing similar stuff or with similar interests locally? Can you do any of your work away from home, in a more social environment (Starbucks e.g.)? Maybe there's a local cafe you could make a habit of visiting regularly. Just little ways to get out of your comfort zone a bit. Heck, maybe you could organise a local HN meetup? I notice you haven't put any info on your profile - maybe be a little more open and give an email and a location? Likewise on other newsgroups or online communities you enjoy. There's nothing wrong with meeting people from online.

Other things I could think of involve going on a little vacation, maybe seeing if there are some clubs or programmes around your area you could sign up for, or volunteering. Also would you consider looking into trying your hand at a random job? Say you put up some fliers for mowing people's lawns. Or offer to teach people computer skills. You can meet nice people, and teaching is a good way to practice being generous and respectful with others.

If you don't mind me asking, what sort of work do you do? And what sort of place do you live in? I'm a uni student in a pretty cozy small town, I'm sure your situation is quite different from mine :)

Re: How Studying Body Language Changed the Way I Socialize

#44

Post by corporalagumbo »

Evbn wrote: post #16
corporalagumbo wrote: post #3

"I feel like Neo at the end of The Matrix now." As much as I hate to admit it, I can identify with this. Becoming socially literate for me too has felt and continues to feel almost like a superpower. That "Wow! I can't believe I can do this!" feeling is a bit of a rush. I think what the author is describing is something of a growing trend. It has become relatively easy to make it through to adulthood with very low so…

Of course if the guy had said the same thing, he would be a passive aggressive jerk, saying "maybe" when he who darn well what the problem was. But the girl had long flowing social skills, and two large, soft skills, and these that made her delivery more pleasant...

Uhh... I have no idea why you feel the need to be so hostile about this. Also, I don't agree with you. Generally girls are sharper socially than guys, but I have met plenty of guys with great social skills, as well as girls with limited skills, and many other variations.

And if you're suggesting that I automatically approve of the social behaviour of attractive girls, then I am afraid I beg to differ.

Re: How Studying Body Language Changed the Way I Socialize

#45

Post by fatboy »

rcthompson wrote: post #27
kijin wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It really is a learnable skill! ... We've just forgotten the habit as a society of teaching it to our children. I think that's a hasty generalization. Some people are merely introverted, and can improve their social intelligence through everyday practice. Others, however, actually have a neurological condition (i.e. Asperger's Syndrome, which the article mentions). At least for some subset of them, "social intellig…

> At least for some subset of them, "social intelligence" is little more than analytic intelligence applied to something that has a very low signal-to-noise ratio. Yep, that's exactly what it feels like to me. I recently got diagnosed with Asperger's. I find it impossible to do "social intelligence" in real time during a conversation. The frustrating part is that the signal is obviously there, since other people pick…

Do you find it possible to identify the signals by analysing interactions after the fact, not in real time?

Re: How Studying Body Language Changed the Way I Socialize

#46

Post by gizzlon »

the_cat_kittles wrote: post #15
corporalagumbo wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not knowing much about your situation, here are some general tips that may or may not be useful. Also, recommending again Daniel Goleman's work for developing basic social literacy. 1) Be happy about the size of your social circle. Some people think they have to run out and make lots of friends as quickly as possible. I think it's better to hang out with the people you know and work on just having a good attitude. Mo…

Thanks for the thoughtful words. Based on my text alone, I can see how these would apply. I think I know all these things intellectually. I probably put most of them into practice. I wonder if a big part of the problem is I work from home, and I work all the time. Or is that symptom? You deserve serious kudos for the list, regardless.

I wonder if a big part of the problem is I work from home, and I work all the time

FWIW, I find that when I spend a lot of time alone, social interaction can get awkward and I need a little time to get into the "flow" again.

Re: How Studying Body Language Changed the Way I Socialize

#47

Post by borplk »

Is that what you really want? To me it's just promoting the manipulation of other people. Because hey, it's a skill so it's ok.

Doesn't it bother you? To know that the person you are talking to, is mirroring your emotions, or offering sympathy, to manipulate you into liking them?

I very much prefer the Aspergers-like honesty. I would rather hear 9 harsh, blunt, honest criticisms a day and 1 genuine complement than to receive 10 fake, sugar-coated, vague, manipulative signals.

Don't think you'll be the only mastermind learning these and no one else will know about it. Keep in mind, if you do it, if you apply these techniques in your day to day interactions so will other people. And think about it for a second, from the perspective of a subject. Do you really want to be the subject to these social tricks and manipulations?

This thought truly bothers me. To hear a complement and not knowing if it was true and genuine or I was complemented simply because that person had read "How to influence people and win friends" last week and wanted to try his manipulation techniques on me.

Maybe instead of promoting these social skills we need to promote the appreciation of honesty and having some self control over our emotions.

Re: How Studying Body Language Changed the Way I Socialize

#48

Post by jiggy2011 »

borplk wrote: post #47

Is that what you really want? To me it's just promoting the manipulation of other people. Because hey, it's a skill so it's ok. Doesn't it bother you? To know that the person you are talking to, is mirroring your emotions, or offering sympathy, to manipulate you into liking them? I very much prefer the Aspergers-like honesty. I would rather hear 9 harsh, blunt, honest criticisms a day and 1 genuine complement than to…

I think you are making the distinction because someone learned it consciously.

People who have high social skills likely do this stuff all the time, perhaps without realising it.

Of course people will speak negatively about "manipulating people" but the fact is that it's simply part of how the world goes round, in which case it's probably best to be one of the people who is skilled and resolve to use your powers for good.

The alternative would be trying to persuade highly sociable people to imitate aspies.

You can try and persuade everyone to be honest, but in a world full of honest people being the only liar will bring huge advantages.

Re: How Studying Body Language Changed the Way I Socialize

#49

Post by graeme »

rcthompson wrote: post #27
kijin wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It really is a learnable skill! ... We've just forgotten the habit as a society of teaching it to our children. I think that's a hasty generalization. Some people are merely introverted, and can improve their social intelligence through everyday practice. Others, however, actually have a neurological condition (i.e. Asperger's Syndrome, which the article mentions). At least for some subset of them, "social intellig…

> At least for some subset of them, "social intelligence" is little more than analytic intelligence applied to something that has a very low signal-to-noise ratio. Yep, that's exactly what it feels like to me. I recently got diagnosed with Asperger's. I find it impossible to do "social intelligence" in real time during a conversation. The frustrating part is that the signal is obviously there, since other people pick…

Paul Ekman has extensively documented micro expressions, which are trace views of the signal. Studying them will teach you the normal, longer expressions too, that's how I learned.

How exactly does asperger's work? For me the learning process went:

Learn that crinkles under the eye mean smile is real --> observe it quite a bit --> learn to see it naturally and intuitively

That doesn't feel any different from any normal skill acquisition. But I may have had the advantage of some neural mechanism absent in aspie brains.

Anyway, the whole process only took a few months. Ekman has som microexpression training CDs, highly recommended.

Re: How Studying Body Language Changed the Way I Socialize

#50

Post by jiggy2011 »

erichocean wrote: post #24
kijin wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It really is a learnable skill! ... We've just forgotten the habit as a society of teaching it to our children. I think that's a hasty generalization. Some people are merely introverted, and can improve their social intelligence through everyday practice. Others, however, actually have a neurological condition (i.e. Asperger's Syndrome, which the article mentions). At least for some subset of them, "social intellig…

I do find it interesting that we ask Aspies to become more empathetic, but we don't ask neurotipicals to become a little less hung up on social niceties. Obviously, neurotypicals get the benefit of the doubt for "how people should be", since there are so many more of them. But we don't ask gays to be straight, despite not being "normal", numerically, so why should we ask Aspies to be more empathetic? Why assume an As…

Do you think that aspies are less susceptible to Zynga games? I don't know either way but in my own experience aspie types that I have met seem much more likely to be hooked on games like WoW certainly.

I'm not sure that the comparison to gays works so well because by and large being gay doesn't affect your day to day relationships with other people apart from in specific circumstances. Unless you act in a stereotypical gay fashion it's quite likely that nobody will ever know you are gay unless you tell them. I've met plenty of people whom I've known have been gay but in all likelyhood I've met countless more who have been gay and I've had no idea.

It's very hard to hide if you are an aspie or socially retarded in some way and it's something that is likely to affect your relationship with everybody who you meet. By and large these effects will also be negative since people are uncomfortable around people they regard as "weird".

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