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A quarter of US-trained scientists eventually leave

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Re: A quarter of US-trained scientists eventually leave

#41

Post by tshaddox »

SimianSci wrote: post #14
slwvx wrote: post #7

A more positive-sum view is that the US is bringing the rest of the world up in science every time it exports a PhD.

While indeed a positive outlook, I think alot of Americans are beginning to wonder what the benefit will be to them. The isolationist and xenophobic rhetoric of recent years is mostly a reaction to a growing sense that increasingly few Americans are benefiting from global goodwill and development. While I dont agree with the sentiment, its not entirely incorrect to describe such relationships are parasitic more then…

> The isolationist and xenophobic rhetoric of recent years is mostly a reaction to a growing sense that increasingly few Americans are benefiting from global goodwill and development.

I'm not sure I buy your claim that this is the reason for the rhetoric. And if you're right that this is the reason for the rhetoric, it's extremely flawed reasoning.

Re: A quarter of US-trained scientists eventually leave

#42

Post by resters »

It's the second (so far bc he hasn't ruled out a third) presidential term for a strongly anti-immigrant / anti-immigration president who has a lot of support domestically.

Immigrants are being chased out of the US in record numbers. Many of my friends with brown skin (second generation immigrants) are worried their kids will be harrassed by ICE, etc.

The sad fact is that there are a LOT of Americans who deeply resent when someone from another country comes to the US, works hard, and earns a prosperous and happy life.

The US is now led by an emotional revenge-driven crusade against the American Dream, against capitalism, against the "melting pot" that fuels culture and innovation. It's a weird kind of revenge idiocracy going on right now.

In case it's not obvious, many of us here are deeply ashamed of what is going on and we will make it right eventually. I'm personally looking forward to the lawsuits that end up paying people mistreated by ICE significant sums of money, give them flights back to the US, etc. The US has a labor shortage and a talent shortage right now, we need the best and brightest, the most hard working, etc., not the lazy ones who think they are owed something and believe the orange clown.

Re: A quarter of US-trained scientists eventually leave

#43

Post by selimthegrim »

delaminator wrote: post #12
stackghost wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gosh what a disingenuous comment. Do you really, actually, not comprehend the difference between a national STEM economy and a fast food restaurant, and how the two situations are not at all analogous, or were you just trying to come up with something snappy?

foreigner comes to US to buy STEM education completes it, leaves

Not every STEM grad student is a CS masters

Re: A quarter of US-trained scientists eventually leave

#44

Post by AndrewKemendo »

SimianSci wrote: post #14
slwvx wrote: post #7

A more positive-sum view is that the US is bringing the rest of the world up in science every time it exports a PhD.

While indeed a positive outlook, I think alot of Americans are beginning to wonder what the benefit will be to them. The isolationist and xenophobic rhetoric of recent years is mostly a reaction to a growing sense that increasingly few Americans are benefiting from global goodwill and development. While I dont agree with the sentiment, its not entirely incorrect to describe such relationships are parasitic more then…

> global goodwill and development

Is that what we’re calling the $8-9 TRILLION spent killing millions of people across the world from the failed “Global War or Terror?”

Tell me where all this goodwill and development is happening

Re: A quarter of US-trained scientists eventually leave

#45

Post by seanmcdirmid »

sharpy wrote: post #38
slwvx wrote: post #7

A more positive-sum view is that the US is bringing the rest of the world up in science every time it exports a PhD.

I wonder if US still manages to keep the most promising?

Yes, but today less so than yesterday? We also are benefiting less from the top students with state funded undergraduate education in China and India.

Re: A quarter of US-trained scientists eventually leave

#46

Post by seanmcdirmid »

sailfast wrote: post #25
mattnewton wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

not sure I understand, I read a lot of research papers from China.

My read: China is seen as a serious geopolitical rival that the United States must beat in a shooting or Cold or AI or war. As a result PHDs to China as an export would be a negative impact, not a positive one potentially.

America gave China its space (and ballistic missile) program when they deported Qian Xuesen in 1955.

Re: A quarter of US-trained scientists eventually leave

#47

Post by vannevar »

SimianSci wrote: post #14
slwvx wrote: post #7

A more positive-sum view is that the US is bringing the rest of the world up in science every time it exports a PhD.

While indeed a positive outlook, I think alot of Americans are beginning to wonder what the benefit will be to them. The isolationist and xenophobic rhetoric of recent years is mostly a reaction to a growing sense that increasingly few Americans are benefiting from global goodwill and development. While I dont agree with the sentiment, its not entirely incorrect to describe such relationships are parasitic more then…

"...a growing sense that increasingly few Americans are benefiting from global goodwill and development"

That "growing sense" is not growing organically, it's being energetically fertilized. The problem isn't that most Americans aren't benefiting from global goodwill and development, it's that they aren't benefiting from domestic development. And the minority who are benefiting disproportionately from domestic economic growth are expending significant resources to convince everybody else that the problem lies with the rest of the world.

Re: A quarter of US-trained scientists eventually leave

#48

Post by GolfPopper »

bikenaga wrote: post #2

Abstract: "Using newly-assembled data from 1980 through 2024, we show that 25% of scientifically-active, US-trained STEM PhD graduates leave the US within 15 years of graduating. Leave rates are lower in the life sciences and higher in AI and quantum science but overall have been stable for decades. Contrary to common perceptions, US technology benefits from these graduates' work even if they leave: though the US sha…

>data from 1980 through 2024

This percentage is going to go up sharply in near future.

Re: A quarter of US-trained scientists eventually leave

#49

Post by jongjong »

Knowledge and intelligence are wasted outside of the US. You could build great stuff but if you're not in the US, your chance of success is extremely low because the media algorithms will work against you. Not to mention regulations. In Europe, it felt like politicians were being paid to suppress tech.

I'm jealous of tech people who live in media-sovereign countries like the US, China or Russia who don't have to experience algorithm discrimination.

IMO, tech/science people who leave the US before accumulating big money are making a mistake. They underestimate how rigged the tech industry is. You've got to leverage the rigging. You either benefit from the rigging or you are victim of it. I cannot wrap my mind around people who are born in the US and leave. People don't understand how lucky and privileged they are before it's gone.

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