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Why isn't online age verification just like showing your ID in person?

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Re: Why isn't online age verification just like showing your ID in person?

#41
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure why we don't just make a law that parents must set parental controls on their kids' devices. We do this for most other things.

We should then make laws that parents must tell their kids to clean their room. Next we can make laws that parents must tell their children to eat their veggies. What about chore laws? Teeth brushing laws? Stop arguing with your sister laws! More laws!

Honestly, there should be more laws on how children should be brought up.

Re: Why isn't online age verification just like showing your ID in person?

#42
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the punishment you want to give to parents who don't? That's the implication of making a law.

They get blacklisted from being able to have internet

How do they work find and keep a job keep up with their kids school and keep government benefits.

It doesn't matter that you could do those things before the internet the normal and often only or only practical flow involves the net.

Counter offer we keep letting people manage their own kids' shit and they can control access to the degree they deem appropriate

Re: Why isn't online age verification just like showing your ID in person?

#43
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure why we don't just make a law that parents must set parental controls on their kids' devices. We do this for most other things.

We should then make laws that parents must tell their kids to clean their room. Next we can make laws that parents must tell their children to eat their veggies. What about chore laws? Teeth brushing laws? Stop arguing with your sister laws! More laws!

There's a giant difference between stopping kids having full reign on what is now essentially the whole world of information - and instant access to strangers, than there is making sure they eat healthy, help out, and don't have bad teeth .... but I'm sure you know that :)

Re: Why isn't online age verification just like showing your ID in person?

#44

In my opinion, access to internet should always be behind a device controlled by an adult. And it should be this adult's responsibility to set appropriate restrictions for minors.

You want parents to parent? God speed and good luck

No, I think what they want is not to have the rest of us have to jump through hoops (and sacrifice privacy) to achieve the same thing. Some of us don't have kids (or live in a household with any), so passing a law that potentially limits our internet access to solve a "problem" that already is dubious is ridiculous.

Re: Why isn't online age verification just like showing your ID in person?

#45
post #30
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure why we don't just make a law that parents must set parental controls on their kids' devices. We do this for most other things.

What is the punishment you want to give to parents who don't? That's the implication of making a law.

Same punishment as not sending them to school

Re: Why isn't online age verification just like showing your ID in person?

#46

I'm never verifying my ID to access anything on the internet. I'll just stop using it.

That's kind of the point of all this. They force websites to enact the verification because they have leverage over businesses that they don't have over citizens, and then they expect that the citizens will hate it so much that they don't go to the "bad" sites at all. "Thank you for your cooperation!"

ETA: (accidental submit; sorry) I'm in the same boat! Not entering my ID information into any website, much less ones they've got on the list. And so they've successfully boxed us in. At least for me, I intend to raise hell about it aside from just not sharing PIA, but I don't have any delusions of it's effect.

Re: Why isn't online age verification just like showing your ID in person?

#47

I don’t like this article. Irrelevant technical nuance is comingled with a philosophical opposition. The technical issues are all solvable. The free speech argument is foolish too: if limiting who can jerk off to pornography is an issue of free speech, surely so is limiting who can enter a bar and converse with the patrons. Opposition to ID checks because you believe the internet should be open and free is reasonable…

The free speech argument is that these ID checks aren't just being applied to porn sites; there's a push to make social media websites (probably the largest hubs of free speech in the modern world) do them too. That's a much bigger deal. It'd be like if you had to show your ID to a police officer in order to enter exit your front door.

Re: Why isn't online age verification just like showing your ID in person?

#48

In my opinion, access to internet should always be behind a device controlled by an adult. And it should be this adult's responsibility to set appropriate restrictions for minors.

Agreed. My kids are young right now, but I'm wondering if we can just have a shared family room computer like in the 90s. (school-based laptops might thwart this, but maybe by the time they're school-aged people will realize that constantly putting kids in front a screen is a bad thing to do?)

Even if they don’t share a computer you can still set up their own computers in a shared space. We don’t put tvs in bedrooms either just to keep those rooms for reading/sleeping. Added bonus of keeping computers in common spaces is that your kids won’t disappear into their rooms one day and never come back out.

Re: Why isn't online age verification just like showing your ID in person?

#49
post #25

Cryptographically there are techniques that let you prove you're one of the several hundred million adults in the US that don't reveal anything about which adult you are. It's much less complicated than bitcoin. I'm bringing this up because it's the perfect litmus test to show whether you really care about age verification, or if you want personal trackability for all internet behavior. I'd be okay with this for cert…

Can you send a link or explain how this can be done?

As a not super tech savvy parent I find it impossible to keep my son off screens. He always finds a workaround. So I'm a fan of age verification especially after reading The Anxious Generation, despite all the hate it gets from hacker news.

Re: Why isn't online age verification just like showing your ID in person?

#50
post #25

Cryptographically there are techniques that let you prove you're one of the several hundred million adults in the US that don't reveal anything about which adult you are. It's much less complicated than bitcoin. I'm bringing this up because it's the perfect litmus test to show whether you really care about age verification, or if you want personal trackability for all internet behavior. I'd be okay with this for cert…

Not really. There are ways to prove ownership of one of several hundred million tokens. If you give out this many tokens, the odds that some will be stolen or sold must be fairly close to 1.
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