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Going Through Snowden Documents, Part 1

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Re: Going Through Snowden Documents, Part 1

#41

Post by ginush »

ok123456 wrote: post #39
ginush wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We know now that communications are being intercepted in bulk as a matter of intelligence gathering, but that does not equate to everyone being surveilled by the government. What this actually provides, first and foremost, is the capability to perform targeted surveillance more rapidly, and to do so temporally by reaching into datasets already recorded. Obviously this provides a much-needed capability for legitimate…

>We know now that communications are being intercepted in bulk as a matter of intelligence gathering, but that does not equate to everyone being surveilled by the government. Yes it does.

No it doesn't. Think about it. Some computer somewhere that is involved in bulk interception happens to record your browser connecting to, say, the Hacker News website, at various dates and times. This is stored in a dataset. No-one ever views these connection records. No-one ever writes a query for the dataset that returns these connection records. These connection records are automatically deleted after the retention period is up. Clearly, you are not being surveilled.

Re: Going Through Snowden Documents, Part 1

#42

Post by hopelite »

ginush wrote: post #27
ok123456 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably, that he did the right thing at the right time.

I hope he's still not deluding himself into thinking he did anything positive.

That's rather harsh. Exposing illegal, objectively treasonous activities by the government is not exactly not something positive, regardless of whether the regime has only gotten worse and more totalitarian and tightened its noose even more around the neck of humanity.

By objective measures, having the courage he did to do what he did was courageous, albeit possibly foolish, since his understanding of the USA did not actually match the reality of what the USA long has been, because he has been drinking the Kool-Aid too.

Ironically, the system depended on and somewhat still depends on the very kind of belief in the system that Snowden had, even if he just believed it far more and actually took it serious.

Re: Going Through Snowden Documents, Part 1

#43

Post by throawayonthe »

psunavy03 wrote: post #40
ok123456 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably, that he did the right thing at the right time.

No, he violated a trust given to him, he deserves to be in jail, and if he had an ounce of moral character he'd come back and face trial like a man. Unlike the movies there aren't secret death squads out to get him, just a courtroom where he can face the consequences of his actions like an adult. Instead, he's hiding out playing the victim in a country that's actively genociding Ukrainians to a degree beyond anything…

lololol sure

more seriously, the difference is he's not doing protest via civil disobedience like MLK Jr, he's a whistleblower

working for an organization like the NSA, the only moral thing you can do is realize your error and bail tf out

Re: Going Through Snowden Documents, Part 1

#44

Post by sdoering »

jjordan wrote: post #7

If you've ever watched the movie "Enemy of the State", which came out in 1998, I don't know how you can come away from that movie thinking anything other than someone in that script writing pipeline had some insider knowledge of what was happening. So many of the things they talk about in the film were confirmed by the Snowden releases that it's kinda scary. Today, it's almost a national societal resignation that "yo…

The most ironic thing that never came to fruition was an X-Files spinoff [1].

The pilot aired a few months before 9/11. Depiction a plot by the (I believe) CIA to crash a passenger airplane into the WTC. And the three computer freaks/conspiracy theorists that often helped Mulder trying to stop that.

I watched it a few months after 9/11 happened. That definitely was an experience I will never forget.

Even as a German, 9/11 for me ranks in the top three defining historic moments that I actively remember that demarcated the timeline in a clear before and after. Next to Chernobyl disaster and 11/9 (fall of the Berlin Wall).

Edit:

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lone_Gunmen_(TV_series)

Re: Going Through Snowden Documents, Part 1

#45

Post by alex1138 »

psunavy03 wrote: post #40
ok123456 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably, that he did the right thing at the right time.

No, he violated a trust given to him, he deserves to be in jail, and if he had an ounce of moral character he'd come back and face trial like a man. Unlike the movies there aren't secret death squads out to get him, just a courtroom where he can face the consequences of his actions like an adult. Instead, he's hiding out playing the victim in a country that's actively genociding Ukrainians to a degree beyond anything…

You forget the security-state apparatus has secret courts and secret laws

It may not be a fair trial. He's always stated his willingness to undergo a fair one

Re: Going Through Snowden Documents, Part 1

#46

Post by timschmidt »

ginush wrote: post #32
asdefghyk wrote: post #5

Some what (vaguely) related to this topic About surveillance. I recall a local political and business figure making statements you and/or I are being surveilled by the government. Everyone thought that's not likely , its not possible, he is a bit imbalanced.. After the dumping of documents' from Snowden and Assange it was shown to be possible Things like, if its even possible , it could plausibly be happening. The go…

We know now that communications are being intercepted in bulk as a matter of intelligence gathering, but that does not equate to everyone being surveilled by the government. What this actually provides, first and foremost, is the capability to perform targeted surveillance more rapidly, and to do so temporally by reaching into datasets already recorded. Obviously this provides a much-needed capability for legitimate…

William Binney, former technical director of NSA disagrees: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3owk7vEEOvs

I see further down the thread you claim that surveillance data is deleted without ever being looked at. Must be why they need a half dozen gargantuan datacenters full of storage and compute.

Re: Going Through Snowden Documents, Part 1

#47

Post by alex1138 »

jack_tripper wrote: post #25
koakuma-chan wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why isn't Russia torturing him to get all the secrets out of him?

Because real life is not a Bond movie where the first thing that happens is a British actor with a bad Russian accent starts torturing you like in Goldfinger. Plus, as the US has found out, torture has been proven a bad way to get the truth out of people, since under duress people will admit and say anything just to make the pain stop, even if they're innocent and have no valuable information.

John Kiriakou talked about just this on JRE. Everyone should watch it; be warned, you'll be absolutely furious by the end of it

Re: Going Through Snowden Documents, Part 1

#48

Post by sunaookami »

ginush wrote: post #27
ok123456 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably, that he did the right thing at the right time.

I hope he's still not deluding himself into thinking he did anything positive.

Account created 40 minutes ago, are you sure you are not an NSA employee?

Re: Going Through Snowden Documents, Part 1

#49

Post by xbmcuser »

sdoering wrote: post #44
jjordan wrote: post #7

If you've ever watched the movie "Enemy of the State", which came out in 1998, I don't know how you can come away from that movie thinking anything other than someone in that script writing pipeline had some insider knowledge of what was happening. So many of the things they talk about in the film were confirmed by the Snowden releases that it's kinda scary. Today, it's almost a national societal resignation that "yo…

The most ironic thing that never came to fruition was an X-Files spinoff [1]. The pilot aired a few months before 9/11. Depiction a plot by the (I believe) CIA to crash a passenger airplane into the WTC. And the three computer freaks/conspiracy theorists that often helped Mulder trying to stop that. I watched it a few months after 9/11 happened. That definitely was an experience I will never forget. Even as a German,…

Tom Clancy also had a similar plot in the Jack Ryan series

Re: Going Through Snowden Documents, Part 1

#50

Post by [deleted] »

jjordan wrote: post #7

If you've ever watched the movie "Enemy of the State", which came out in 1998, I don't know how you can come away from that movie thinking anything other than someone in that script writing pipeline had some insider knowledge of what was happening. So many of the things they talk about in the film were confirmed by the Snowden releases that it's kinda scary. Today, it's almost a national societal resignation that "yo…

[deleted]
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