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The AI-Education Death Spiral a.k.a. Let the Kids Cheat

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Re: The AI-Education Death Spiral a.k.a. Let the Kids Cheat

#41

Post by wdutch »

vunderba wrote: post #3

From the article: > The next time a teacher complains about AI cheating, ask: If a machine can do this assignment perfectly, why are you giving it to this student? And then we can replace it with education and work that actually matters. While this might be more true of "factoid based classes" (such as geography) - it completely misses the point of subjects where students actively benefit from struggling through the…

> students actively benefit from struggling through the act of the craft itself.

Hard agree! Although I'm biased as a foreign language teacher :)

Geography is a great example actually because it can be "factoid based" or it could be based on investigation. Off the top of my head, students could make rivers through sandpits to investigate erosion. Hopefully AI inspires a change to the latter approach.

I often see people online saying "We were never taught this in school!" as if the point in education is to memorize all the factoids. But we should be teaching people how to do experiments, look things up and apply critical thinking.

Re: The AI-Education Death Spiral a.k.a. Let the Kids Cheat

#42

Post by BobbyJo »

chii wrote: post #9
Avicebron wrote: post #2

You know, back in the day, teachers used to try and convey the "why" behind things like writing essays and reading books. Spark notes existed, but a good teacher could convey, hey, there is a reason we are doing this thing, it is because it has value outside the note that says you completed the task itself.

> back in the day... teachers still do this today. It's just that kids are less disciplined, and more prone to attention deficits. Not to mention that punishment for failure has been dulled down to almost non-existent. "No child left behind" had noble intentions, but the way it was implemented leaves much to be desired. To me, the fix is to cure the lack of consequences in the outcome of cheating. If you're allowed t…

> It's just that kids are less disciplined, and more prone to attention deficits.

I think this puts the blame too much on the kids. Its not their fault we've created a world where they are surrounded by dopamine treadmills.

I know you go on to say that we need to change their environment to solve the problem, and I wholeheartedly agree. I just wanted to point out that kids today are the victims in all this mess.

Re: The AI-Education Death Spiral a.k.a. Let the Kids Cheat

#43

Post by jastanton »

vivzkestrel wrote: post #27

- the solution is very simple, stop giving homework completely - when students come to the classroom, before assigning them work, have them place their cellphones at the teacher's table - then give them homework, as simple as that

This is the correct answer and is being used by teacher friends of mine with great success.

The structure they chose is in-class work counts for 80%+ of their grade. All work in class is done with pencil & paper. Quite simple in fact to solve a large part of the homework cheating issue.

Re: The AI-Education Death Spiral a.k.a. Let the Kids Cheat

#44

Post by d_silin »

I think there must be a different angle to win this game.

If you play fairly, the skills and knowledge you learned are truly yours. But if you are outsourcing all your proficiencies to an AI, than what will become of you?

Kids want to be cool unique snowflakes, if one can master a skill without the resorting to cheating, one will gain the ability to impress the peers.

Push in that direction.

Re: The AI-Education Death Spiral a.k.a. Let the Kids Cheat

#46

Post by chairmansteve »

My entire (non American) education career was exam based. The exams were tightly supervised, no books etc. Every thing had to be memorised. Cheating was impossible.

Funny thing is, memorising something is a big help to understanding it.

In that system, AI is a very useful tool. AFAIK, this is how they still do it in many Asian countries.

It worked pretty well. Produced a lot of educated people.

Re: The AI-Education Death Spiral a.k.a. Let the Kids Cheat

#47

Post by BobbyJo »

saulpw wrote: post #40
banbangtuth wrote: post #36

Why not just let it be survival of the fittest? Those who are lazy will continue to be lazy. Those who are determined will continue to be determined. We don't need to help everyone, especially those who don't want to help themselves. If they want to suffer financially in the future because they are being lazy now, oh well, it can't be helped.

The lazy and stupid but rich will out-survive the industrious and smart but poor.

This. Technology tends to increase the value of capital and not the value of labor, at least that has been the pattern for the last 50+ years. Take that trend to its conclusion and merit is crushed under the weight of who your parents are.

Re: The AI-Education Death Spiral a.k.a. Let the Kids Cheat

#48

Post by airstrike »

robot-wrangler wrote: post #16

> the system loses legitimacy, defection becomes the dominant strategy. Almost every sentence of this piece is a very powerful reminder that we're not really talking about education vs cheating and it's actually about real work vs optics, appearances vs reality, fake news vs information, and all the rest at the same time. A certain amount of bullshit is and always has been standard, and you see it in all kinds of fol…

From that one quote alone you can likely tell this was written by AI.

Other comments suggest the same. Ironic, isn't it?

The city I once knew as home is teetering on the edge of radioactive oblivion.

A three-hundred thousand degree baptism by nuclear fire.

I’m not sorry, we had it coming.

A surge of white hot atonement will be our wakeup call.

Hope for our future is now a stillborn dream.

Re: The AI-Education Death Spiral a.k.a. Let the Kids Cheat

#49

Post by jakeinspace »

banbangtuth wrote: post #36

Why not just let it be survival of the fittest? Those who are lazy will continue to be lazy. Those who are determined will continue to be determined. We don't need to help everyone, especially those who don't want to help themselves. If they want to suffer financially in the future because they are being lazy now, oh well, it can't be helped.

Because we live in a society, and all of us suffer if the average worker and citizen falls significantly in their competence and understanding of the world.

Re: The AI-Education Death Spiral a.k.a. Let the Kids Cheat

#50

Post by tehjoker »

Learning skills are hard. Learning to add numbers requires drills. Learning to read big books is hard. There's no getting around that except that some students are intrinsically motivated, but all of them need to learn to read, write, and calculate and hopefully do so with meaningful and accurate information.
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