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Ireland's Inability to Defend Itself

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Re: Ireland's Inability to Defend Itself

#41

Post by throw310822 »

TulliusCicero wrote: post #35
throw310822 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Russia decided to full-on invade Ireland, a country of 4.5 million (as completely absurd as this idea is, being Ireland where it is) having its own military would not help Ireland- it should better capitulate quickly to limit damage.

There's a similar population ratio between the PRC and Taiwan I believe, so I guess Taiwan should just give up on having a military entirely then? Not possible for them to stop China, so why bother? Just lie back and think of Ireland.

If Taiwan weren't defended by the US (for purely strategic interests, certainly not because of idealism or democracy) then yes, sure. Better than a destructive war with the same identical outcome.

Btw, do you also happen to think that Ireland should arm itself against a possible invasion from the US?

Re: Ireland's Inability to Defend Itself

#43

Post by dralley »

throw310822 wrote: post #32
TulliusCicero wrote: post #6

100% agreed with this article. The whole idea of Ireland's supposed neutrality is a farce. Does anyone really think that if a country like Russia decided to full-on invade Ireland, other European nations would just shrug it off? Of course not, and the Irish are well aware of that and rely on it (already they explicitly rely on the UK to help defend their country as a matter of policy). So really it's a simple hypocri…

If Russia decided to full-on invade Ireland, a country of 4.5 million (as completely absurd as this idea is, being Ireland where it is) having its own military would not help Ireland- it should better capitulate quickly to limit damage.

What? The very distance involved and difficulty of such an invasion is precisely why resistance is extremely plausible and not being able to do so is indefensible. Even a "token" amount of resistance makes it exponentially more difficult.

You would certainly have been the type of person whining about how Ukraine was doomed to fall in a matter of hours under the incredible size and capability of the Russian military. Like, these guys are just not that competent. You can make the job nearly impossible for them by just giving a single solitary fuck.

To say nothing of the fact that "full invasion" isn't even really the target. They just need to be able to defend their own airspace and sea lanes against errant Russian planes and ships.

Re: Ireland's Inability to Defend Itself

#44

Post by happytoexplain »

osiris970 wrote: post #5

Ireland having 0 military capabilities, and being completely dependent on NATO, while being extremely opinionated, on how and what NATO does, always irked me deeply.

The implication that having military strength is a prerequisite for having opinions about international policy is horrifying.

Re: Ireland's Inability to Defend Itself

#45

Post by nradov »

reorder9695 wrote: post #14
osiris970 wrote: post #5

Ireland having 0 military capabilities, and being completely dependent on NATO, while being extremely opinionated, on how and what NATO does, always irked me deeply.

Ireland doesn't have 0 military capabilities, they have enough of a military to conduct peacekeeping missions elsewhere, which they don't need to do. They just don't have the ability to defend an invasion, but they do certainly have a military that does good in the world.

OK so their capability isn't precisely 0, but it rounds to 0.

Re: Ireland's Inability to Defend Itself

#46

Post by missedthecue »

happytoexplain wrote: post #44
osiris970 wrote: post #5

Ireland having 0 military capabilities, and being completely dependent on NATO, while being extremely opinionated, on how and what NATO does, always irked me deeply.

The implication that having military strength is a prerequisite for having opinions about international policy is horrifying.

No offense but how is that not obvious by second grade. Don't have a big mouth if you don't have a big stick too. Ireland doesn't have quiet opinions, but a rather big mouth about other nations' foreign policy.

Re: Ireland's Inability to Defend Itself

#47

Post by osiris970 »

cdilld wrote: post #17

I think Ireland's commitment to pacifism and neutrality is laudable. Too few people live here to be able to defend against attacks from a larger power, and Ireland's strong suit has always been diplomacy, anyway. That obviously annoys people who either (for some unfathomable reason) like war or stand to gain personally from increased defence spending. Fortunately, there is little appetite for the kind of militarisati…

This assumes that all nation and political actors will be happy to engage in democracy, which isn't the case. Not every country is a rational liberal democracy (and even those are having a rough time).

Re: Ireland's Inability to Defend Itself

#48

Post by thfuran »

dralley wrote: post #43
throw310822 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Russia decided to full-on invade Ireland, a country of 4.5 million (as completely absurd as this idea is, being Ireland where it is) having its own military would not help Ireland- it should better capitulate quickly to limit damage.

What? The very distance involved and difficulty of such an invasion is precisely why resistance is extremely plausible and not being able to do so is indefensible. Even a "token" amount of resistance makes it exponentially more difficult. You would certainly have been the type of person whining about how Ukraine was doomed to fall in a matter of hours under the incredible size and capability of the Russian military.…

No, they need to be able to defend their elections and social media from Russian interference.

Re: Ireland's Inability to Defend Itself

#49

Post by throw310822 »

tonymet wrote: post #11
TulliusCicero wrote: post #6

100% agreed with this article. The whole idea of Ireland's supposed neutrality is a farce. Does anyone really think that if a country like Russia decided to full-on invade Ireland, other European nations would just shrug it off? Of course not, and the Irish are well aware of that and rely on it (already they explicitly rely on the UK to help defend their country as a matter of policy). So really it's a simple hypocri…

Nearly Everything consequential in history was unexpected, and for the most part we have a record of someone important saying "that will never happen"

There's also a long history of tragic events happening precisely because everyone was preparing for them (see: WWI) and of course, of horribly wrong choices getting prepared for things that never happened.

Re: Ireland's Inability to Defend Itself

#50

Post by culi »

osiris970 wrote: post #5

Ireland having 0 military capabilities, and being completely dependent on NATO, while being extremely opinionated, on how and what NATO does, always irked me deeply.

Ireland doesn't have exactly zero military capabilities. For example they have a military base in Lebanon. They have a decades long solidarity with Hezbollah and solidarity demonstrations are commonplace

https://rebelbreeze.com/2024/09/21/dublin-demonstration-in-s...

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