Live data from Hacker News

Perpetual futures, explained

bitsaboutmoney.com

41–50 of 83 posts

Re: Perpetual futures, explained

#41
post #29

I don't think many people on HN realize how globally systemically important public blockchains are on track to become, especially Ethereum. The understandable hatred of the casino and many scams has blinded most of HN as to the true potential of the technology and its associated new public institutions. That's what a decentralized public blockchain is, a new kind of public institution. One small example of this is th…

I don't realize, care to enlighten us?

Re: Perpetual futures, explained

#42

Crypto at this point is neither decentralized nor anonymous. It’s a Ponzi scheme wrapped in increasing level of complexity and involving an increasing number of banks, and controlled by a decreasing number of very large players. This crypto octopus is putting tentacles in Fidelity, and major US banks, and pension funds, and 401k accounts, and any other money holder. They are putting debt on banks at leverage levels b…

There are some new-ish attempts to improve crypto anonymity and decentralization. For example zcash and monero.

Re: Perpetual futures, explained

#43
post #33

Why would I want a perp on BTC when I can just buy the coin? The example quoted the price of the perp as (close to) the same as the price of BTC, so if I'm not getting leverage why not just buy the coin and avoid counterparty risk?

If the goal is just to buy and hold, then you wouldn't use perps, not only because of counterparty risk but also because the funding rate is typically positive, meaning you pay (usually ~10% APR) to be long.

The point of perps is:

- Easy access to leverage. Unlike options or futures, there's no need to roll over.

- It's the easiest way to short a coin. Most of the time you even get paid the funding rate to be short.

- Trading fees are typically much lower than for spot.

- Volume and liquidity can be better for perps than for spot. The BTC/USDT perp did 10x the volume of the spot pair in the last 24h on Binance.

Re: Perpetual futures, explained

#44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are you asking? Can you rephrase that in a different way? Can I leverage trade derivatives and also earn fees from liquidity pooling with Robux?

BTC almost exclusively enables crime. It's fundamentally too bad at basically everything to replace any part of the real economy. It is almost exclusively used for crime, admittedly fun technological exploration, and gambling on a valuation based not on actual net utility in current context but on perception of future utility that will probably never materialize. Web 2.0 based on boring old primitives like ad dollars…

BTC doesn’t really operate in the decentralized finance world, all the platforms for applications are on other chains so your arguments are also stuck in 2014

Ask an AI about it to catch up, this is a decade too late to have that conversation

the only thing that matters is that there is liquidity and permissionless deployment, we are far far beyond “should there be liquidity”, you can build business on smart contract platforms solely because there is liquidity and people with frictions you can solve just like any other industry or the financial services sector in general

Re: Perpetual futures, explained

#45
post #33

Why would I want a perp on BTC when I can just buy the coin? The example quoted the price of the perp as (close to) the same as the price of BTC, so if I'm not getting leverage why not just buy the coin and avoid counterparty risk?

maybe to avoid checking a box on an irs form?

Re: Perpetual futures, explained

#46
post #2

It's striking how much the crypto world depends on trust in other parties. The whole point of crypto was supposed to be that it was "trustless". But it's not set up that way. All these crypto derivatives are not set up as contracts on a blockchain, with assets locked up until the derivatives settle. They're book entries with some weakly regulated exchange in Outer Nowhere.

This comment makes sweeping generalizations.

This is a useless comment for most readers (myself included!) unless you specify what you think those sweeping generalizations are, and why you think they're unsound.

Re: Perpetual futures, explained

#47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> HyperCore includes fully onchain perpetual futures and spot order books. Every order, cancel, trade, and liquidation happens transparently with one-block finality inherited from HyperBFT. HyperCore currently supports 200k orders / second, with throughput constantly improving as the node software is further optimized. Key part: > fully onchain perpetual futures and spot order books

Being on a blockchain and being decentralized are two different things. The HyperCore client isn't even open source.

That's just patently false.

> Importantly, HyperCore does not rely on the crutch of off-chain order books. A core design principle is full decentralization with one consistent order of transactions achieved through HyperBFT consensus.

Re: Perpetual futures, explained

#48
post #33

Why would I want a perp on BTC when I can just buy the coin? The example quoted the price of the perp as (close to) the same as the price of BTC, so if I'm not getting leverage why not just buy the coin and avoid counterparty risk?

You are getting leverage. Leverage and liquidity are the reasons you deal in futures.

Re: Perpetual futures, explained

#49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are you asking? Can you rephrase that in a different way? Can I leverage trade derivatives and also earn fees from liquidity pooling with Robux?

BTC almost exclusively enables crime. It's fundamentally too bad at basically everything to replace any part of the real economy. It is almost exclusively used for crime, admittedly fun technological exploration, and gambling on a valuation based not on actual net utility in current context but on perception of future utility that will probably never materialize. Web 2.0 based on boring old primitives like ad dollars…

BTC isn't a programmable chain. As yieldcrv says, your talking points are too old to make sense anymore. BTC's big "innovation" has been its version of an L2: the Lightning Network. Otherwise BTC people mostly treat it as a gold-like asset at this point.

Re: Perpetual futures, explained

#50
post #2

It's striking how much the crypto world depends on trust in other parties. The whole point of crypto was supposed to be that it was "trustless". But it's not set up that way. All these crypto derivatives are not set up as contracts on a blockchain, with assets locked up until the derivatives settle. They're book entries with some weakly regulated exchange in Outer Nowhere.

Different cryptocurrency products offer different properties and guarantees. Much like different databases offer different concurrency models. Folks that use currency backed stablecoins do not care for the trustless properties. There are various algorithmic stablecoins out there that you can use to stay free of KYC/AML but they aren't very popular.

Largely the folks that want trustless currency use chains like BTC, BCH, XMR, or ZEC.

Post reply on HN