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Covid-19 mRNA Vaccination and 4-Year All-Cause Mortality

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Re: Covid-19 mRNA Vaccination and 4-Year All-Cause Mortality

#41

Post by eddieroger »

hannob wrote: post #31

I found the intro very confusing, tbh. Particularly the "no increased risk of all-cause mortality". I mean, if we assume the vaccines worked, we'd certainly expect a decreased risk of all-case mortality (because "all-case mortality" certainly includes "covid mortality"). Reading "no increase" seems to imply "it doesn't change anything". Yeah, technically, the sentence does not say that ("no increase" can mean "no dec…

Frame it as the safety of the vaccine, not the efficacy of it. If it was about efficacy, it would lead with the 25% lower risk because of COVID safety. But, these days, there are people who think vaccines are dangerous just because, so saying that taking the vaccine or not has equal mortality puts that to rest (or at least does for those who find science real).

Re: Covid-19 mRNA Vaccination and 4-Year All-Cause Mortality

#42

Post by blindriver »

They define unvaccinated as anyone in the study who didn't get their first dose by Nov 2021. That feels like a pretty tight window to me. I don't think they checked to see if those "unvaccinated" people got vaccinated during the 4 year followup, especially given the mandates that forced people to get them.

Re: Covid-19 mRNA Vaccination and 4-Year All-Cause Mortality

#43

Post by gwerbret »

sa-code wrote: post #4

> no increased risk of all-cause mortality > study including 22.7 million vaccinated individuals and 5.9 million unvaccinated individuals These are the important bits for the non medical folks

> These are the important bits for the non medical folks

Also significantly: "vaccinated individuals consistently had a lower risk of death, regardless of the cause."

Re: Covid-19 mRNA Vaccination and 4-Year All-Cause Mortality

#44

Post by ceejayoz »

hannob wrote: post #31

I found the intro very confusing, tbh. Particularly the "no increased risk of all-cause mortality". I mean, if we assume the vaccines worked, we'd certainly expect a decreased risk of all-case mortality (because "all-case mortality" certainly includes "covid mortality"). Reading "no increase" seems to imply "it doesn't change anything". Yeah, technically, the sentence does not say that ("no increase" can mean "no dec…

Eh, it's an important point. "It made COVID things much better, and it didn't make other unrelated things worse."

Re: Covid-19 mRNA Vaccination and 4-Year All-Cause Mortality

#45

Post by exceptthisthing »

hannob wrote: post #31

I found the intro very confusing, tbh. Particularly the "no increased risk of all-cause mortality". I mean, if we assume the vaccines worked, we'd certainly expect a decreased risk of all-case mortality (because "all-case mortality" certainly includes "covid mortality"). Reading "no increase" seems to imply "it doesn't change anything". Yeah, technically, the sentence does not say that ("no increase" can mean "no dec…

Because this whole paper is bullshit and is a bias confirmation report

It assesses persons "who were alive on November 1, 2021"

That tantamount to saying "for people alive January 1st 1950, the Second World War was not a significant cause of mortality"

Can you see how ridiculous that sounds?

Re: Covid-19 mRNA Vaccination and 4-Year All-Cause Mortality

#46

Post by tasty_freeze »

exceptthisthing wrote: post #39
kachapopopow wrote: post #3

tl;dr: no, covid-19 vaccinated group had no increased risk of death, but did have decreased risk of death for covid (except in Corse region?) edit: tl;dr: covid-19 mRNA vaccine was effective and did not contribute to increased deaths.

if you were among persons "who were alive on November 1, 2021"

can you make explicit the point you are making?

Re: Covid-19 mRNA Vaccination and 4-Year All-Cause Mortality

#47

Post by blindriver »

sa-code wrote: post #4

> no increased risk of all-cause mortality > study including 22.7 million vaccinated individuals and 5.9 million unvaccinated individuals These are the important bits for the non medical folks

They define unvaccinated as anyone who wasn't vaccinated by Nov 2021. What if they got vaccinated afterwards?

Re: Covid-19 mRNA Vaccination and 4-Year All-Cause Mortality

#48

Post by ceejayoz »

infamouscow wrote: post #7
dalbaugh wrote: post #5

Unfortunately, I don't think any additional evidence will convince vaccine skeptics of the safety of mRNA vaccines

[flagged]

> If the results of this specific study were the opposite, would you behave any different than a skeptic?

This study supports all the other bits of evidence in the same direction; it's consistent with what we know.

Similarly, I'd be somewhat more dubious about even a very well constructed study that declares "there are no people in New York City" than one that found some people there.

Re: Covid-19 mRNA Vaccination and 4-Year All-Cause Mortality

#49

Post by andy99 »

arnoooooo wrote: post #9
llmslave wrote: post #8

Vaccines benefit the population, at the expense of the individual

This study demonstrates that it benefits the individual (and therefore the population).

No it doesn’t. I’m not trying to make a point about vaccines, just that the study is a population study and so shows benefits on average to a population.

If the vaccine killed 1/100 people (again I don’t believe this but it’s the internet) but made the other 99 immune to dying over the 4 years, it would look really good on average even if it was directly responsible for the deaths of 1%.

Re: Covid-19 mRNA Vaccination and 4-Year All-Cause Mortality

#50

Post by lesuorac »

Honestly, the thing I find more interesting is the "Social Deprivation Index" where vaccinated individuals were 21% "most social" and 19% "least social" while unvaccinated individuals were 15% "most social" and 27% "least social".

There are obvious negative and positive ways to interpret this but I don't actually know the correct one.

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