Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

AI Is Destroying the University and Learning Itself

currentaffairs.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 56 posts

Re: AI Is Destroying the University and Learning Itself

#41

Post by vondur »

adi_kurian wrote: post #23

Good article though rather than philosphizing about lost souls, we probably should go back to the future. Pen-and-paper exams only. No take-home essays or assignments. Assessments done in person under supervision. No devices in class. Heavily reduced remote learning or online coursework. Coursework redesigned so that any out-of-class work is explicitly AI-collaborative. Frequent low-stakes in-class writing to verify…

This is the correct answer. I work at a CSU (non-faculty) and the issue here is many of the faculty like using online and automated systems to dish out the work and the grading. Going back to doing it the old fashioned way will provoke a pushback from the faculty who will complain about workloads etc...

Re: AI Is Destroying the University and Learning Itself

#42

Post by binary132 »

adi_kurian wrote: post #23

Good article though rather than philosphizing about lost souls, we probably should go back to the future. Pen-and-paper exams only. No take-home essays or assignments. Assessments done in person under supervision. No devices in class. Heavily reduced remote learning or online coursework. Coursework redesigned so that any out-of-class work is explicitly AI-collaborative. Frequent low-stakes in-class writing to verify…

it's almost as though what we need is to entirely ditch the university scam and create something new that more closely resembles what its real purpose was always supposed to be.

Re: AI Is Destroying the University and Learning Itself

#43

Post by waffletower »

awillowingmind wrote: post #39
waffletower wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can straw man all you like, I haven't used an LLM in a few days -- definitely not to summarize this article -- and what you claim is the central idea, is directly related to my claim. Its very easy to combine them directly: students intellectual development is going to be impaired by AI because they can't be trusted to use it critically. I disagree.

I’m not sure how you lived through the last decade and came to the conclusion that people aged 17-25 make rational decisions with novel technologies that have short term gain and long term (essentially hidden) negative side effects.

It seems that 10% of college students in the U.S. are younger than 18, or do not have adult status. The other 90% are adults and are trusted with voting, armed services participation and enjoy most other rights that adults have (with several obvious and notable exceptions -- car rental and legal controlled substance purchase etc.) Are you saying that these adults shouldn't be trusted to use AI? In the United States, and much of the world, we have drawn the line at 18. Are you advocating that AI use shouldn't be allowed until a later cutoff in adulthood? It is not at all definitively established what these "essentially hidden" negative side effects are, that you elude to, and if they actually exist.

Re: AI Is Destroying the University and Learning Itself

#44

Post by defrost »

binary132 wrote: post #42
adi_kurian wrote: post #23

Good article though rather than philosphizing about lost souls, we probably should go back to the future. Pen-and-paper exams only. No take-home essays or assignments. Assessments done in person under supervision. No devices in class. Heavily reduced remote learning or online coursework. Coursework redesigned so that any out-of-class work is explicitly AI-collaborative. Frequent low-stakes in-class writing to verify…

it's almost as though what we need is to entirely ditch the university scam and create something new that more closely resembles what its real purpose was always supposed to be.

> what its real purpose was always supposed to be.

Catholic education and theology college?

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Paris#Origins

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Oxford#Founding

Re: AI Is Destroying the University and Learning Itself

#45

Post by defrost »

Der_Einzige wrote: post #36
Pet_Ant wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My parents had oral exams in university. I feel like that actually is a better format that does not rewarding cramming, but is interactive and over quicker. It means that there is a dynamic that actually allows for grading problem solving over regurgitation.

Anyone with oral exams was privileged.

Privileged enough to have a place at a university, sure.

That didn't universally equate to privilege in a class or wealth sense for a number of countries.

eg: https://www.whitlam.org/whitlam-legacy-education

was the system I was educated under, when I took orals it was a result of being a scruffy kid that wore no shoes but passed general high school and math talent exams better than all but three others my age in the state.

( For interest, the three that ramked higher than myself that year in Tertiary admissions exams were all educated in expensive private schools in the capital city- I got by on School of the Air, a bunch of books and a few years at a smallish remote high school in far north W.Australia

* https://www.aades.edu.au/members/wa

1970's ham radio running off truck batteries - pre internet for that area, although we did experiment with text over phone line and packet radio.

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prestel

)

Re: AI Is Destroying the University and Learning Itself

#46

Post by waffletower »

add-sub-mul-div wrote: post #14
waffletower wrote: post #7

This is such a naive, simplistic, distrusting and ultimately monastic perspective. An assumption here is that university students are uncritical and incapable of learning while utilizing AI as an instrument of mind. I think a much more prescient assessment would be that presence of AI demands a transformation and evolution of university curricula and assessment - and the author details early attempts at this -- but d…

Even conceding that you, the person reading this comment, will only use AI the right way. With diligence and curiosity. It takes a significant amount of denial not to understand that the majority of people see AI a shortcut to do their job with the least possible amount of effort, or as a way to cheat. These are the people you will be interacting with for the coming decades of your life.

If a student is given a task that a machine can do, and there is some intrinsic value for the student to perform this task manually and hermetically, this value ought to be explained to the student, and they can decide for themselves how to confront the challenge. I think LLMs pose an excellent challenge to educators -- if they are lazily asking for regurgitation from students they are likely to receive machine-aided regurgitation in 2025.

Re: AI Is Destroying the University and Learning Itself

#48

Post by RAIN92 »

Pet_Ant wrote: post #27
adi_kurian wrote: post #23

Good article though rather than philosphizing about lost souls, we probably should go back to the future. Pen-and-paper exams only. No take-home essays or assignments. Assessments done in person under supervision. No devices in class. Heavily reduced remote learning or online coursework. Coursework redesigned so that any out-of-class work is explicitly AI-collaborative. Frequent low-stakes in-class writing to verify…

My parents had oral exams in university. I feel like that actually is a better format that does not rewarding cramming, but is interactive and over quicker. It means that there is a dynamic that actually allows for grading problem solving over regurgitation.

It's ironic. In Italy we always had constant oral exams (and still do!) from elementary school all the way to Uni. At least 2 per week in high school.

In an effort to standardize European systems many courses are trying to get rid of them because foreign students are particularly weak in an oral defense.

Turns out we were right for once :D

Re: AI Is Destroying the University and Learning Itself

#49

Post by turzmo »

waffletower wrote: post #7

This is such a naive, simplistic, distrusting and ultimately monastic perspective. An assumption here is that university students are uncritical and incapable of learning while utilizing AI as an instrument of mind. I think a much more prescient assessment would be that presence of AI demands a transformation and evolution of university curricula and assessment - and the author details early attempts at this -- but d…

No you are wrong. Students use AI not to augment their minds, but to replace the use of them.

Re: AI Is Destroying the University and Learning Itself

#50

Post by binary132 »

defrost wrote: post #44
binary132 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's almost as though what we need is to entirely ditch the university scam and create something new that more closely resembles what its real purpose was always supposed to be.

> what its real purpose was always supposed to be. Catholic education and theology college? * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Paris#Origins * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Oxford#Founding

sounds good to me. :)
Post reply on HN