kernel anti-cheat are notoriously inefficient and are weaponized by hackers.
Games using anti-cheats and their compatibility with GNU/Linux or Wine/Proton
41–50 of 485 posts
Re: Games using anti-cheats and their compatibility with GNU/Linux or Wine/Proton
#42Is there really no way to make anti-cheat on Linux that can't be bypassed? I don't know much about this, but it seems very difficult to make an anti-cheat for a platform where you can make changes in the kernel.
A trusted entity (probably Valve) could provide a locked down distro where kernel integrity is enforced through secure boot and TPM attestation, but that would mean giving up some control over your own system. There's no guarantee that anything client-side is impossible to bypass of course, but the goal would be to more or less match what Windows offers, which isn't perfect either.
Could reboot into secure mode for these types of games.
Re: Games using anti-cheats and their compatibility with GNU/Linux or Wine/Proton
#43Earlier quoted context omitted.
Some kinds of cheating can be mitigated that way, but it can't really stop cheats which just play the game more optimally than the user is able to, using the same inputs and outputs that a legit player would use. Aim assistance in shooters, automatic parries in fighting games, economy-breaking levels of automation in MMOs, and so on. There's also practical limits to how much data you can filter out in complex 3D game…
You could probably detect those kinds of cheats heuristically on the server. There are limits to human ability. It’ll take more time to catch the cheaters, but I’m sure it’s possible. This player is posting 30 auctions per second. Bot. This player is turning at a rate of 500 radians per second to make perfect headshots. Bot.
Aimbots will just add delay and variance then. Guess its a bit fairer but if they're better than shroud level then it's still not great.
Re: Games using anti-cheats and their compatibility with GNU/Linux or Wine/Proton
#44Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think the most stringent types of Windows anti-cheat rely on remote attestation of the operating system. It's theoretically possible to design a Linux-based OS that supports such a capability, but the sort of people who choose Linux are unlikely to accept a third party having the final say over their computer. I, for one am disappointed that anyone has accepted it. Once it's widespread, service providers can demand…
I also strongly dislike requiring remote attestation for any kind of software I want to run. But what I also dislike is cheaters in my online games and I genuinely do not have a better suggestion on what to do. Personally, I run Windows purely for gaming and don't let it near any important data. For the latter, I boot into Linux with separately encrypted disks.
I'm doing the same but I worry about windows compromise messing with the bootloader so then encrypted linux drive won't save me. Probably too paranoid though?
Re: Games using anti-cheats and their compatibility with GNU/Linux or Wine/Proton
#45Is there really no way to make anti-cheat on Linux that can't be bypassed? I don't know much about this, but it seems very difficult to make an anti-cheat for a platform where you can make changes in the kernel.
Linux is resistant to rootkits, which is what these things are, and allows you to remove them, yes. The correct solution is to verify everything server side, or actually have humans watch replays and ban cheaters, but both of those would reduce profits, so will obviously never happen.
IMO the real solution is back in community servers and votekicking.. It works on old games with no anticheat measures..
Maybe add some blatant detection for people teleporting and doing other absolutely impossible things serverside, but I don't understand why my team has to ruin their 'reputation' teamkilling a cheater so he doesn't ruin the game completely in most current games when the anticheat only catches free, old cheats. Just let people votekick and find someone else in the matchmaking queue who's willing to join halfway through.. Once votekicked enough times you can escalate to the AI (always indians) for automated (manual) review.
Also, you don't even have to ban cheaters. Just isolate them to play with each other. Some might find it fun and keep away from the normal players.
Edit: The 'issue' with community server manual review and votekick is you can be kicked for being cracked or garbage at the game legitimately, but TBH at this point you're ruining the fun of everyone else, so you should probably get in another server/match.. Also that premades can have majority, but that's easily solved by reducing their vote weight.
Re: Games using anti-cheats and their compatibility with GNU/Linux or Wine/Proton
#46Earlier quoted context omitted.
Some kinds of cheating can be mitigated that way, but it can't really stop cheats which just play the game more optimally than the user is able to, using the same inputs and outputs that a legit player would use. Aim assistance in shooters, automatic parries in fighting games, economy-breaking levels of automation in MMOs, and so on. There's also practical limits to how much data you can filter out in complex 3D game…
You could probably detect those kinds of cheats heuristically on the server. There are limits to human ability. It’ll take more time to catch the cheaters, but I’m sure it’s possible. This player is posting 30 auctions per second. Bot. This player is turning at a rate of 500 radians per second to make perfect headshots. Bot.
this is already running in production for Counter-Strike since 2018 [0][1].
to be honest, it isn’t particularly good - all serious CS2 games operate on a third party provider with a kernel-level anti-cheat. also, the cs2 update banned people for spinning their mouse too fast [2].
[0]: https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/5u2xly/eli...
Re: Games using anti-cheats and their compatibility with GNU/Linux or Wine/Proton
#47Earlier quoted context omitted.
Unless DOTA2 is running at a ~3 tick rate (Which it's not), even taking account processing delays and action batching, a bot will always have faster reaction times than an actual player. It will also never misclick. This problem is magnified in a shooter game, which would be unplayable with that kind of batching, but where a cheater with an aimbot is actually impossible for a legitimate player to beat.
After you click, the character will begin to turn, which can take several hundred ms. A delta of couple ms compared to the time it takes to turn is completely negligible and even an inch better positioning of a character, or having a character with items or stats that makes them turn faster (because picks are asymmetric) will make several magnitudes more of an impact. If your game allows your sights to just teleport…
>If your game allows your sights to just teleport on people's heads and take that as the winning condition then that just sounds like bad design, there's no reason to allow infinitely fast movement and omitting strategy even from a shooter
From the servers perspective you always kinda do that for fast movements as the client send rate usually isn't more than 60hz.
Re: Games using anti-cheats and their compatibility with GNU/Linux or Wine/Proton
#48It's funny that game makers make a fuss about anti-cheat not working on Linux but then publish Switch versions of their games. That platform has almost zero security and is commonly emulated with cheats even in multiplayer these days.
This. Even kernel level anti-c-spyware can't stop a cheap vision model hokked to a mouse, see youtube for examples from simple auto input up to full on elctromuscular stimulation.
Re: Games using anti-cheats and their compatibility with GNU/Linux or Wine/Proton
#49Earlier quoted context omitted.
You could probably detect those kinds of cheats heuristically on the server. There are limits to human ability. It’ll take more time to catch the cheaters, but I’m sure it’s possible. This player is posting 30 auctions per second. Bot. This player is turning at a rate of 500 radians per second to make perfect headshots. Bot.
Aimbots will just add delay and variance then. Guess its a bit fairer but if they're better than shroud level then it's still not great.
Which they do already, because slamming all of the aimbot settings to max is a fast track to getting mass reported and escalated to human review, which will immediately see what's going on. Any cheater with an ounce of desire to preserve their account is going to try and maintain the pretense that they're just very skilled, not impossibly skilled.
Re: Games using anti-cheats and their compatibility with GNU/Linux or Wine/Proton
#50Earlier quoted context omitted.
Linux is resistant to rootkits, which is what these things are, and allows you to remove them, yes. The correct solution is to verify everything server side, or actually have humans watch replays and ban cheaters, but both of those would reduce profits, so will obviously never happen.
IMO the real solution is back in community servers and votekicking.. It works on old games with no anticheat measures.. Maybe add some blatant detection for people teleporting and doing other absolutely impossible things serverside, but I don't understand why my team has to ruin their 'reputation' teamkilling a cheater so he doesn't ruin the game completely in most current games when the anticheat only catches free,…
I mean not really, as someone that had been votekicked from many games. Servers with admins does solve this, but has it's drawbacks. But you also cannot have the matchmaking type of game that are popular today.
Back in MW2 if you were the host you could kick players from your game using a cli tool that adjusted firewall rules.