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The EU made Apple adopt new Wi-Fi standards, and now Android can support AirDrop

arstechnica.com

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Re: The EU made Apple adopt new Wi-Fi standards, and now Android can support AirDrop

#41

Post by giantrobot »

ricw wrote: post #38
llm_nerd wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Users all got to complain that the EU are the meanies responsible for their old wires and chargers and accessory no longer being compatible, but it seems infinitely more likely that Apple was going to adopt USB-C on largely the same schedule even if the EU didn't intercede. To be clear, Apple had already moved their laptops and computers to USB-C -- long in advance of almost any one else -- and had moved their iPad P…

Apple probably wouldn’t have changed to usbc for their phones. Lightning was a mobile phone / other development, whilst usbc and its contributions came from their Mac department. They did not like each others standards. I know Apple engineers working on the phone who dislike the change even up to this day…

USB-C is a worse mechanical connector for a device plugged in thousands of times over its lifetime. The female port of a USB-C connector has a relatively fragile center blade. Lightning's layout was the opposite which makes it more robust and easier to clean.

Re: The EU made Apple adopt new Wi-Fi standards, and now Android can support AirDrop

#42

Post by lsaferite »

fingerlocks wrote: post #11
star-glider wrote: post #5

I'm libertarian, but I have to say watching the EU torment Apple has been delightful and one of the stronger arguments for muscular regulatory action. The USB-C thing just made everything better. It cost Apple basically nothing---maybe a few million/year of profit, which for a company that's worth $3 trillion is nothing, and it made my and many other people's lives quite a bit more convenient. Same with this Airdrop…

Apple made major contributions to USB-C and adopted it a decade ago in their MacBooks. They were committed to lightning for 10 years starting in 2012-ish, so usb-c was likely inevitable in iOS devices. However I would preferred a backwards compatibility lightning 2.0 upgrade. Cleaning a usb-c port is a huge pain and they are more prone to pocket lint clogging than lightning.

Plastic dental picks work great for cleaning USB-C ports.

Re: The EU made Apple adopt new Wi-Fi standards, and now Android can support AirDrop

#43

Post by bigyabai »

CharlesW wrote: post #36
bigyabai wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't worry, the United States is always eager to prove that you can neglect both consumer rights and user privacy at the same time.

This wasn't a "meanwhile, the U.S. is good" post. Let's hope this massive AirDrop "win" eases the sting of the rights that the EU is eroding.

I don't think it was an anything post. You are an Apple customer upset at the status quo, which is understandable, but your post is not.

If "think of the children" feels like manufactured consent for the erosion of rights, spending money supporting Tim "Client Side Scanning" Cook isn't going to yield some moral reprisal from Apple. Emotionally manipulating you into accepting conditional surveillance is part of Apple's security model. They're the "good guys" and they don't need to prove it.

Re: The EU made Apple adopt new Wi-Fi standards, and now Android can support AirDrop

#44

Post by ebbi »

fingerlocks wrote: post #11
star-glider wrote: post #5

I'm libertarian, but I have to say watching the EU torment Apple has been delightful and one of the stronger arguments for muscular regulatory action. The USB-C thing just made everything better. It cost Apple basically nothing---maybe a few million/year of profit, which for a company that's worth $3 trillion is nothing, and it made my and many other people's lives quite a bit more convenient. Same with this Airdrop…

Apple made major contributions to USB-C and adopted it a decade ago in their MacBooks. They were committed to lightning for 10 years starting in 2012-ish, so usb-c was likely inevitable in iOS devices. However I would preferred a backwards compatibility lightning 2.0 upgrade. Cleaning a usb-c port is a huge pain and they are more prone to pocket lint clogging than lightning.

While I really like the convenience of not having multiple different cables to charge my devices when travelling, I agree with you on cleaning the usb-c port. In that respect, the lightning design was a lot more elegant and made more sense for a pocketable device.

Re: The EU made Apple adopt new Wi-Fi standards, and now Android can support AirDrop

#45

Post by llm_nerd »

ricw wrote: post #38
llm_nerd wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Users all got to complain that the EU are the meanies responsible for their old wires and chargers and accessory no longer being compatible, but it seems infinitely more likely that Apple was going to adopt USB-C on largely the same schedule even if the EU didn't intercede. To be clear, Apple had already moved their laptops and computers to USB-C -- long in advance of almost any one else -- and had moved their iPad P…

Apple probably wouldn’t have changed to usbc for their phones. Lightning was a mobile phone / other development, whilst usbc and its contributions came from their Mac department. They did not like each others standards. I know Apple engineers working on the phone who dislike the change even up to this day…

"I know Apple engineers working on the phone"

Groan. Come on. Cite one. A single "Apple engineer" to support this ridiculous claim of insider knowledge. What year do you think it is?

You understand that the SoC and I/O blocks are largely shared between the Mac and the iPad / iPhone now, right? This invention of some big bifurcation is not reality based. The A14 SoC (which became the foundation for the Mac's M1) had I/O hardware to support USB-C all the ways back to the iPhone 12. Which makes sense as this chipset was used in iPads that came with USB-C.

Pretty weird for hardware that is largely the same to "not like each others standards".

Re: The EU made Apple adopt new Wi-Fi standards, and now Android can support AirDrop

#47

Post by KK7NIL »

giantrobot wrote: post #41
ricw wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple probably wouldn’t have changed to usbc for their phones. Lightning was a mobile phone / other development, whilst usbc and its contributions came from their Mac department. They did not like each others standards. I know Apple engineers working on the phone who dislike the change even up to this day…

USB-C is a worse mechanical connector for a device plugged in thousands of times over its lifetime. The female port of a USB-C connector has a relatively fragile center blade. Lightning's layout was the opposite which makes it more robust and easier to clean.

> USB-C is a worse mechanical connector for a device plugged in thousands of times over its lifetime.

USB-C connectors are usually rated for 10k cycles. Do you have any evidence that lighting connectors are rated for more cycles than that?

> The female port of a USB-C connector has a relatively fragile center blade. Lightning's layout was the opposite which makes it more robust and easier to clean.

This is very weak a priori arguing. I could just as well argue that USB-C has the center blade shielded instead of exposed and so is more durable.

Unless you have some empirical evidence on this I don't see a strong argument for better durability from either connector.

Re: The EU made Apple adopt new Wi-Fi standards, and now Android can support AirDrop

#48

Post by gambiting »

llm_nerd wrote: post #29
dickersnoodle wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's conceivably politically incorrect to use this reference, but Apple was begging the EU not to throw them into that briar patch.

Begging? Apple filed a couple of light objections -- basically a "don't regulate us, bro" -- and then moved on. Their resistance was laughably superficial Look, Apple is a predatory, extraordinarily greedy company, but these sorts of "thanks EU!" discussions are a riot. Thanks EU, for making Apple support a clone of an Apple feature that didn't exist until Apple made it, and for "forcing" Apple to transition their li…

>> which they were already almost completely done doing

Honest question - why did they stick with lighting on iphones for so long, given that usb-c has been ubiquitus on phones for years before that point. I mean we can sit here and say "duh apple was going to do it anyway" but like.....why didn't they? Why did samsung have usb-c phones long before apple?

Re: The EU made Apple adopt new Wi-Fi standards, and now Android can support AirDrop

#49

Post by concinds »

CharlesW wrote: post #13
MBCook wrote: post #3

So they forced Apple to drop an Apple proprietary thing in favor of… a Wi-Fi standard Apple helped develop specifically to replace their proprietary thing. Not quite as strong as the headline makes the case sound.

The EU: Sacrificing constituents' privacy rights with one hand, while courageously fighting for the sacred right to AirDrop with the other.

The national governments are to blame, not the EU.

Re: The EU made Apple adopt new Wi-Fi standards, and now Android can support AirDrop

#50

Post by llm_nerd »

gambiting wrote: post #48
llm_nerd wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Begging? Apple filed a couple of light objections -- basically a "don't regulate us, bro" -- and then moved on. Their resistance was laughably superficial Look, Apple is a predatory, extraordinarily greedy company, but these sorts of "thanks EU!" discussions are a riot. Thanks EU, for making Apple support a clone of an Apple feature that didn't exist until Apple made it, and for "forcing" Apple to transition their li…

>> which they were already almost completely done doing Honest question - why did they stick with lighting on iphones for so long, given that usb-c has been ubiquitus on phones for years before that point. I mean we can sit here and say "duh apple was going to do it anyway" but like.....why didn't they? Why did samsung have usb-c phones long before apple?

Apple's resistance was presumably user inertia. Users had billions of cables and accessories for lightning, and Apple saw during a prior transition that people get really pissed off about this sort of change.

And let's be real about Samsung et al -- before USB-C, they were using the utter dogshit micro USB connector (funfact -- this terrible connector became prevalent because the EU made a voluntary commitment with manufacturers to adopt it). micro-USB is a horrible connector from a user-experience and reliability perspective. USB-C was a massive, massive upgrade for those users.

In Apple land, everyone already had a bidirectional, reliable connector. Even today to most Apple users the switch from lightning to USB-C was just a sideways move.

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