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NTSB report: Decryption of images from the Titan submersible camera [pdf] (2024)

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Re: NTSB report: Decryption of images from the Titan submersible camera [pdf] (2024)

#41

Post by ryan-ca »

londons_explore wrote: post #37
cbsks wrote: post #4

Wow. SubC’s software engineering needs some work. They thought the camera’s file system was unencrypted, when it was encrypted. They didn’t know where the keys were to decrypt it. It turned out the key was written unencrypted to a UFS storage device. There was a file written to /mnt/nas/Stills, which indicates that the camera was to writing to a remote file system that wasn’t mounted.

> They thought the camera’s file system was unencrypted, when it was encrypted. Willing to bet plenty of hn readers are unaware of encryption going on at lower layers of the tech stack than they're aware of. For example most hard drives encrypt all data, even when not commanded to, as a way to do 'data whitening' (ie making sure there are even numbers of 0's and 1's in the data stream and not some pattern which might…

To my knowledge, encoding avoids runs to avoid desynchronization in a way that isn’t encrypted.

Re: NTSB report: Decryption of images from the Titan submersible camera [pdf] (2024)

#42

Post by londons_explore »

ryan-ca wrote: post #41
londons_explore wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They thought the camera’s file system was unencrypted, when it was encrypted. Willing to bet plenty of hn readers are unaware of encryption going on at lower layers of the tech stack than they're aware of. For example most hard drives encrypt all data, even when not commanded to, as a way to do 'data whitening' (ie making sure there are even numbers of 0's and 1's in the data stream and not some pattern which might…

To my knowledge, encoding avoids runs to avoid desynchronization in a way that isn’t encrypted.

This used to be done, but since ~2000, disks were expected to support on-device encryption, and by making encryption always-on no encoding is needed.

Re: NTSB report: Decryption of images from the Titan submersible camera [pdf] (2024)

#44

Post by lanyard-textile »

monkpit wrote: post #33
vlovich123 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Took me forever to find the actual quote - ChatGPT and Gemini kept trying to gaslight me that it’s not a real quote or that Willie said it to Bart until I gave the exact quote (at which point normal search engines were fine): > A certain agitator, for privacy's sake, let's call her Lisa S. No, that's too obvious, let's say L. Simpson. Lisa the Vegetarian

If you google “Lisa S L Simpson” it’s the first thing that comes up… why make it harder with AI?

… Quite ironically, Google results are AI… :)

Re: NTSB report: Decryption of images from the Titan submersible camera [pdf] (2024)

#45

Post by yawpitch »

cloudbonsai wrote: post #17
watersb wrote: post #5

The SD card on the camera was intact but encrypted. Decrypting the data required a key stored on a separate SOM board, but the SOM was damaged. The investigation team delivered the SOM and SD card to the camera manufacturer in Newfoundland, and they were able to decrypt the card. They found a couple of images, but No data with a timestamp after May 16th was found on the camera, so it is likely that none of the data r…

> No data with a timestamp after May 16th was found on the camera, so it is likely that none of the data recorded on the SD Card were of the accident voyage or dive. Evidently the camera data was recorded to an external SSD card in the mission computer when the accident occurred. The investigation team actually managed to salvage the PC as well: https://data.ntsb.gov/Docket/Document/docBLOB?ID=19169363&Fi... Sadly it…

You can just make out the heatsink fins of the three PCs there, stacked atop (and now kind of inside) each other.

That truly is one of those “let God sort them out” situations.

Re: NTSB report: Decryption of images from the Titan submersible camera [pdf] (2024)

#47

Post by rocqua »

ryan-ca wrote: post #41
londons_explore wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They thought the camera’s file system was unencrypted, when it was encrypted. Willing to bet plenty of hn readers are unaware of encryption going on at lower layers of the tech stack than they're aware of. For example most hard drives encrypt all data, even when not commanded to, as a way to do 'data whitening' (ie making sure there are even numbers of 0's and 1's in the data stream and not some pattern which might…

To my knowledge, encoding avoids runs to avoid desynchronization in a way that isn’t encrypted.

This is line coding, often used on wired connections. But reading a hard drive trace isn't quite a wired connection, so the trade-offs are different.

Most notably with line coding when using positive and negative voltages it is quite important for the average voltage to be zero to avoid building up a charge difference. Whitening can often be used if the downside to an imbalance or long runs is much lower. Notably in RF this is often about avoid harmonics with a little bit of symbol timing advantage thrown in.

Whitening doesn't really require encryption though. Weak cypher streams xored into the data work fine. Even a repeated 256 bit string is quite alright.

Whitening using any non trivial encryption key seems weird to me. AES with a key equal to the current offset in ECB mode already feels over-engineerd.

Re: NTSB report: Decryption of images from the Titan submersible camera [pdf] (2024)

#48

Post by bambax »

cloudbonsai wrote: post #22
pseudolus wrote: post #13

There's a fascinating and redacted interview with an "anonymous" subject about the disaster. To say the least it's an unsuccessful attempt to hide the identity of the individual: "Q. So how did you get yourself started into submersible operations? A. Well, I'm sure you're familiar with my film Titanic. When I set down the path to make that film, the first thing that I did was arrange to be introduced to the head of t…

Among the interviews, one with the former engineering director was the most eye-opening for me. https://data.ntsb.gov/Docket/Document/docBLOB?ID=17236880&Fi... It appears that all the engineers -- system designer, material engineer and structural analyst -- thought that OceanGate CEO was going to kill himself: If you ever find , he’s not going to have a whole lot of nice to say. He was very frustrated with the compan…

The number of stupid decisions that went in the design and construction of the Titan is astonishing. One of my favorites was that, after putting on the carbon fiber around the tube, they would sand imperfections to make the surface perfectly smooth, severing layers in the process! It shouldn't require an engineering degree from MIT to recognize this as ill-advised.

Re: NTSB report: Decryption of images from the Titan submersible camera [pdf] (2024)

#49

Post by bambax »

pseudolus wrote: post #13

There's a fascinating and redacted interview with an "anonymous" subject about the disaster. To say the least it's an unsuccessful attempt to hide the identity of the individual: "Q. So how did you get yourself started into submersible operations? A. Well, I'm sure you're familiar with my film Titanic. When I set down the path to make that film, the first thing that I did was arrange to be introduced to the head of t…

Cameron did several TV interviews about the Titan, why would they redact his name?

He didn't mince his words either; he was extremely critical of the whole thing before and after the disaster.

Re: NTSB report: Decryption of images from the Titan submersible camera [pdf] (2024)

#50

Post by themafia »

londons_explore wrote: post #37
cbsks wrote: post #4

Wow. SubC’s software engineering needs some work. They thought the camera’s file system was unencrypted, when it was encrypted. They didn’t know where the keys were to decrypt it. It turned out the key was written unencrypted to a UFS storage device. There was a file written to /mnt/nas/Stills, which indicates that the camera was to writing to a remote file system that wasn’t mounted.

> They thought the camera’s file system was unencrypted, when it was encrypted. Willing to bet plenty of hn readers are unaware of encryption going on at lower layers of the tech stack than they're aware of. For example most hard drives encrypt all data, even when not commanded to, as a way to do 'data whitening' (ie making sure there are even numbers of 0's and 1's in the data stream and not some pattern which might…

Scrambling and encryption are two different things. Scrambling is very easy to do at line rates. Encryption not so much.

Ethernet is a good example. It has the same problem where long strings of 0's or 1's can cause clock recovery problems. The solution as clock rates have increased is to just run all the data through a scrambler driven by a simple Linear Feedback Shifter.

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