This is Not ok • Hacker News Board

Re: This is Not ok

#41

Post by __alexs » Mon, Oct 01, 2012, 2:40 PM UTC

verroq wrote: post #3

It is the weekly females in tech industry time again? At the risk of derailing the thread, why do so many people want to get more women into programming? Isn't that just as misguided as trying to get more men into nursing? Just because we strive for gender equality doesn't mean every job has to have exactly the same gender ratios.

> Just because we strive for gender equality doesn't mean every job has to have exactly the same gender ratios.

Actually for pretty much any job not based on manual labour it does mean that. And even then it's mostly because we don't have enough robots.

Re: This is Not ok

#42

Post by masterponomo » Mon, Oct 01, 2012, 2:40 PM UTC

I had a similar experience when I (a gent) took my grown daughter to a NKOTB reunion concert as a nostalgia trip. The audience was at least 95% female, and the arena restrooms were re-purposed accordingly. I asked an usher and he told me it was common practice to adapt to the gender mix of the audience. I observed many groups of women noting this reallocation with loud triumphant braying laughter. I doubt the Strange Loop men had a triumphal reaction to the bathroom allotment.

Re: This is Not ok

#43

Post by Pewpewarrows » Mon, Oct 01, 2012, 2:40 PM UTC

verroq wrote: post #3

It is the weekly females in tech industry time again? At the risk of derailing the thread, why do so many people want to get more women into programming? Isn't that just as misguided as trying to get more men into nursing? Just because we strive for gender equality doesn't mean every job has to have exactly the same gender ratios.

The point isn't to have exact same gender ratios in the tech industry.

There are women out there who would make great programmers / sysadmins / etc, but never finish the process of becoming one, are dissuaded from ever starting, or flat-out quit the industry after N number of years, simply because of the barriers put in place by men assuming that the field is only for men.

Re: This is Not ok

#44

Post by Ntrails » Mon, Oct 01, 2012, 2:41 PM UTC

mertd wrote: post #23

It is actually pretty interesting that so many commenters here short circuited into thinking she was complaining about the bathroom situation.

Not really, the anecdote was described poorly and the exit to her main point messy.

I am also slightly bored of people finding things they wish to change and then simply publicising the observation. I was actually hoping that somewhere near the bottom she would offer some insight and/or offer solutions. It might be "Not OK" - but please take a few extra steps and suggest what you think could be done?

Re: This is Not ok

#45

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Oct 01, 2012, 2:41 PM UTC

verroq wrote: post #3

It is the weekly females in tech industry time again? At the risk of derailing the thread, why do so many people want to get more women into programming? Isn't that just as misguided as trying to get more men into nursing? Just because we strive for gender equality doesn't mean every job has to have exactly the same gender ratios.

[deleted]

Re: This is Not ok

#46

Post by bking » Mon, Oct 01, 2012, 2:41 PM UTC

I definitely agree with your view that there aren't enough women in the field, but starting an article, where most of your readers are going to be men, by saying you threw a temper tantrum because a venue swapped the bathrooms to benefit men is inviting readers to disagree with you before you even started making your point.

I read the first part and immediately thought how immature you were, then I read more, and being more open-minded I read over your point, swallowed my previous thought and agree. Not everyone will do that.

I agree we need more women representation, I disagree with the manner the article was written.

Re: This is Not ok

#47

Post by bking » Mon, Oct 01, 2012, 2:42 PM UTC

I definitely agree with your view that there aren't enough women in the field, but starting an article, where most of your readers are going to be men, by saying you threw a temper tantrum because a venue swapped the bathrooms to benefit men is inviting readers to disagree with you before you even started making your point.

I read the first part and immediately thought how immature you were, then I read more, and being more open-minded I read over your point, swallowed my previous thought and agreed. Not everyone will do that.

I agree we need more women representation, I disagree with the manner the article was written.

Re: This is Not ok

#48

Post by raganwald » Mon, Oct 01, 2012, 2:42 PM UTC

bglass wrote: post #29

artumi-richard wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you realised that "this doesn't make sense", that was the time you should have asked "or is it me..." As for women in IT, I can see why IT would want women, but I can't see why women would want IT.

You can't see why a woman would want to be paid quite handsomely to do work that is mentally challenging, not physically arduous, and -- in many cases -- can have a positive societal effect? So... why do -you- want to work in IT?

Let's compare this to golf, circa 1965. Caving to pressure, a local club opens its memberships to Blacks. One or two tokens with strong business relationships to Whites join, but where are all the other Black businesspeople and professionals?

A liberal White member sighs, "I don't understand why the Black people don't want to relax in our luxurious club, play a round on our excellent course, and eat our sumptuous dining fare. What is the problem?" Meanwhile, the Blacks are thinking, "Who needs to join the club and have all these racist assholes resenting the fact that we're in their club and tiptoeing around us in case the N-word slips out in our presence. How fucking uncomfortable."

p.s. Did I say 1965? What's the deal with Agusta National and Blacks and/or Women?

Re: This is Not ok

#49

Post by bking » Mon, Oct 01, 2012, 2:42 PM UTC

I definitely agree with your view that there aren't enough women in the field, but starting an article, where most of your readers are going to be men, by saying you threw a temper tantrum because a venue swapped the bathrooms to benefit men is inviting readers to disagree with you before you even started making your point.

I read the first part and immediately thought how immature you were, then I read more, and being more open-minded I read over your point, swallowed my previous thought and agreed. Not everyone will do that.

I agree we need more women representation, I disagree with the manner the article was written.

Re: This is Not ok

#50

Post by mcormier » Mon, Oct 01, 2012, 2:42 PM UTC

artumi-richard wrote: post #20

TylerE wrote: post #2

This doesn't really make sense. She's complaining that at an event with 97% of attendance by men (by her own statement), they got, say, 92% of the bathroom facilities, and then throws a fit. Not buying it. If this is the biggest outrage in your life you should consider yourself fortunate.

When you realised that "this doesn't make sense", that was the time you should have asked "or is it me..." As for women in IT, I can see why IT would want women, but I can't see why women would want IT.

Not exactly. It's poorly written. It takes a lot of effort to read this and determine the author's point. She does a poor job of transferring from her bathroom story to the general issue of there being an absence of women in IT.

Then she starts throwing around statistics in paragraph 6 with absolutely no segue. She goes from whiny complainer about something trivial to I'm gonna fix the world's problems by talking to other women at this conference.

She's just not a good writer and her being a woman has nothing to do with that.