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Genergo: Propellantless space-propulsion system

satcom.digital

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Re: Genergo: Propellantless space-propulsion system

#41

Post by wahern »

kbelder wrote: post #9

[flagged]

Italy has a strong north/south cultural and wealth divide, much like the US (at least before the recent cultural reconfiguration). Northern Italy has always been at the forefront of industry, AFAIU, but Italian diaspora largely came from the poorer, southern regions, giving rise to many negative stereotypes of Italians generally outside of Italy; stereotypes many Northern Italians also hold of the southern regions. Of course, free from various structural and cultural barriers these people were eventually able to thrive, just like anyone else.

Re: Genergo: Propellantless space-propulsion system

#42

Post by octaane »

Not possible according to the laws of physics. The closest you can get is a solar sail, but that's not "propellant-less" - photons are the propellant.

If a company thinks they've broken one of the most fundamental laws of physics (momentum transfer), they need to provide some serious evidence, and publish in full so their results can be replicated. A press release on an obscure website isn't how you do it.

Re: Genergo: Propellantless space-propulsion system

#43

Post by api »

Sanzig wrote: post #18

I am highly skeptical. A reactionless thruster is the holy grail of propulsion systems, but there are no known physics which permit it to work. A photon rocket would allow momentum exchange without mass consumption, but a quick look at the math shows it would be infeasible (hundreds of megawatts per newton). My guess is this works at all, it is inadvertently expelling reaction mass somehow, such as ablating off small…

A photon rocket would involve use of mass. The only conceivable way to power one would be something like fusion or antimatter matter annihilation, which converts mass into energy. It’s just a rocket with the maximum possible exhaust velocity: c.

Re: Genergo: Propellantless space-propulsion system

#44

Post by yreg »

IshKebab wrote: post #37
cjameskeller wrote: post #34

Link to relevant patent: https://patents.google.com/patent/US11462985B2/en

Classic perpetual motion using magnets nonsense. Are there really that many gullible people on HN?

> Are there really that many gullible people on HN?

Who's gullible? Pretty much all of the comments show skepticism, but some are curious what is this about.

Re: Genergo: Propellantless space-propulsion system

#45

Post by api »

octaane wrote: post #42

Not possible according to the laws of physics. The closest you can get is a solar sail, but that's not "propellant-less" - photons are the propellant. If a company thinks they've broken one of the most fundamental laws of physics (momentum transfer), they need to provide some serious evidence, and publish in full so their results can be replicated. A press release on an obscure website isn't how you do it.

Anyone publishing a repeatable experiment demonstrating this would be more or less instantly handed a nobel prize, since it would have to unlock new fundamental physics.

It would also totally rock cosmology since you’d have to rework the whole age and evolution of the universe in light of those new physics, whatever they were.

This is almost definitely bunk. Either that or something mundane explained in a ridiculous hypey way.

Re: Genergo: Propellantless space-propulsion system

#46

Post by hinkley »

The JPL had a project called M2P2 that explored using magnetic field lines and plasma to create a solar sail out of ionized gas. The idea being that it can be regenerated in the face of micrometeoroids and other space debris.

Tethers.inc wanted to, among other things, used cables as a drag line to either lower satellites in orbit by absorbing electrical flux from passing through the magnetosphere, or pulse the cable to push against it to raise the orbit.

Re: Genergo: Propellantless space-propulsion system

#47

Post by api »

verzali wrote: post #29
BurningFrog wrote: post #8

> "Genergo’s system generates thrust without using any propellant and without expelling reaction mass, by directly converting electrical energy into thrust through controlled electromagnetic impulses." Anyone have a clue how this might work?

Maybe its possible to generate motion using the Earth's magnetic field under the right circumstances, though I'm not sure if that's really feasible. Or they might be able to create a very small thrust by emitting photons, but that must be very very small if its actually the case.

AFAIK that would require very powerful superconducting magnets or long tethers. This seems to be neither.

Re: Genergo: Propellantless space-propulsion system

#48

Post by Lichtso »

For everybody claiming that locomotion without the impulse of a reaction mass is impossible: https://arxiv.org/abs/2112.09740v2

and before anybody only reads "spacetime curvature" and thinks the paper is talking about a warp drive, it is not.

Anyway, this Genergo thingy seems to be nonsense IMO, or they would have actually explained how it works.

Re: Genergo: Propellantless space-propulsion system

#50

Post by GolfPopper »

octaane wrote: post #42

Not possible according to the laws of physics. The closest you can get is a solar sail, but that's not "propellant-less" - photons are the propellant. If a company thinks they've broken one of the most fundamental laws of physics (momentum transfer), they need to provide some serious evidence, and publish in full so their results can be replicated. A press release on an obscure website isn't how you do it.

It certainly sounds like "We managed to run our EM drive hardware in space, and our instruments say it did something" (as did EM drive proponent's, in error). Because if it really was even something like "we successfully produced thrust from ambient ions/earth's magnetic field/etc" then it would be much bigger news.
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