Where's my $4/month rails hosting?
Will Rails be the new PHP?
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Re: Will Rails be the new PHP?
#42Earlier quoted context omitted.
Right, but Rails will always have some sort of organization. That being said it is possible to go against the grain and not use Rails' default directory structure - but that's difficult. I'm comparing Rails to vanilla PHP - just as the author is. People are exposed to PHP's low barrier of entry (again, vanilla here) because you can write an application with PHP/Apache/mySQL very quickly. However, because of this, mos…
Please don't compare a framework with a language, even someone before did it.
I'm comparing RoR to the act of running PHP scripts on Apache. Both are processes - this is also what the article addresses.
Re: Will Rails be the new PHP?
#43Re: Will Rails be the new PHP?
#44There's really only one paragraph here that remotely tries to explain the headline: "The PHP where there are lots of people writing below par software while charging their clients for it? The PHP that has a ton of websites with crappy advice and crappy code to copy/paste? The PHP which has a relatively small community, with the majority of people working under the radar and on their own?" I'm a Python developer. Do y…
> So, this is ridiculous. The answer is no. Rails provides infinitely better tools in a better language than PHP.
You're making a highly subjective and unqualified comparison of a language to a framework, and (given past citations in similar discussions) probably using information to do so that's at least five years out of date. This after saying you're a python dev so presumably not especially well versed in either language/framework (do correct me if I'm wrong)
Like you say, there's a lot of bad code out there. PHP is notorious for it due to its shallow learning curve and widespread availability on cheap servers. The authors point is that the barrier to entry on ruby/rails appears to be quickly dropping and asks whether it will suffer the same fate.
Re: Will Rails be the new PHP?
#45Earlier quoted context omitted.
Please don't compare a framework with a language, even someone before did it.
I'm comparing RoR to the act of running PHP scripts on Apache. Both are processes - this is also what the article addresses.
You don't think Ruby on Rails requires the overhead of a server???
There are perfectly good and very sophisticated MVC frameworks available for PHP, such as CakePHP (one of the closer to Rails, even down to the command-line "baking" of models, controllers, etc.).
There are meaningful differences to development using both languages, but criticizing PHP because it was popularized independently of any specific framework is not one of them. Especially since there are plenty of situations (think dumb but scalable web services) in which the last thing you want to do is invoke the overhead of a framework in any language.
Re: Will Rails be the new PHP?
#46There's really only one paragraph here that remotely tries to explain the headline: "The PHP where there are lots of people writing below par software while charging their clients for it? The PHP that has a ton of websites with crappy advice and crappy code to copy/paste? The PHP which has a relatively small community, with the majority of people working under the radar and on their own?" I'm a Python developer. Do y…
> So, this is ridiculous. The answer is no. Rails provides infinitely better tools in a better language than PHP. You're making a highly subjective and unqualified comparison of a language to a framework, and (given past citations in similar discussions) probably using information to do so that's at least five years out of date. This after saying you're a python dev so presumably not especially well versed in either…
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Re: Will Rails be the new PHP?
#47Earlier quoted context omitted.
1) userbase is not a community, usergroups and such are. 2) the sub-par php code thing? go post on place like craig's list, where the uninformed who need developers might post things, and see what kind of developers respond. go look at wordpress plugins. go look at tutorials and examples on blogs. while yes, there are certainly well qualified php programmers, you're going to see a lot of horrifying code.
... and all the rails code of the world is better? How has the rails community gotten this "my shit don't smell" attitude? Like I said, the barrier to entry for ails is even lower, it stands to reason that there would be even more horrifying Rails code out there. Every language and framework is going to have horrifying code, I don't understand how you can ignore the Rails communities code while singling out PHPs
eh, i honestly always thought the rails community had a pretentious streak running through. can't defend them too much. same goes for python, and many other communities too.
there's a lot going on there. however i think most of what the post is talking about is how as a community grows it's cohesiveness wanes.
Re: Will Rails be the new PHP?
#48It's the strangest thing. It's like having a blog and access to Hacker News makes self-proclaimed "seasoned" programers forget that they, too, probably had really crappy code when they started programming. Instead of bashing green programmers who coincidentally became interested programming at the same time that Rails makes it so easy to start, why not offer them up a list of resources to make them better? Humans are…
He's not bashing green programmers. He's bashing on programmers with years under their belt who never got any better, and don't participate in any community.
In gaming this is the difference between a newbie and a noob.
Re: Will Rails be the new PHP?
#49Where's my $4/month rails hosting?
Re: Will Rails be the new PHP?
#50um no? PHP "has a relatively small community, with the majority of people working under the radar and on their own?" ? Where is he getting these stats? relative to what? For instance http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.... Says PHP the language is more popular than Ruby the language (let alone the subset of Ruby programmers who use Rails). I don't get where that perceived smallness comes from.…
Php is a scripting language specifically designed for web development. Hence, not fit to be in a head to head comparison with a general purpose programming language.
Thus the comparison is held at that level (web), comparing php with a web framework. If that wouldn't make any sense, then it does make sense to compare php with C++ or Java (which it doesn't). After all, you can write a website in C++.
Putting that aside, your viewpoint is hilarious as well. I find it amusing how you call the issue you linked at, a core rails bug when your knowledge of rails doesn't qualify for such a statement.
It wasn't a bug. If you are a rails developer, have indeed read the issue and replies or at least read the title well enough, you would have concluded that it was a bad coding practice.
The security measure to prevent such mass attribute assignment "was" present for developer's to utilize. It's a single line of code, but some lazy asses wanted that auto-generated/forced/opt-out instead of opt-in.
It's a good practice, an advised practice, a recommended practice to write that single line of code. The fact that a mass majority of rails developers didn't write it, or ignored this warning doesn't mean it's a "core rails bug".
No, the ruby/rails community is not as large as Php.
Yes, the php community has an awkward tendency to write "below" the par software while charging for it.
Any experienced php developer will confirm this sad fact and will probably blame the language for it
(Php "is" flawed on so many levels: http://me.veekun.com/blog/2012/04/09/php-a-fractal-of-bad-de...)