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Microsoft: 'To fill 6,000 jobs, we'll pay $10K per visa'

theregister.co.uk

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Re: Microsoft: 'To fill 6,000 jobs, we'll pay $10K per visa'

#41

Post by [deleted] »

raverbashing wrote: post #35
toyg wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What? - US developer salary: 60k per year (cheap areas etc etc). Over three years: 180k. - Foreign visa: 50k per year + 10k one off. Over three years: 160k. And of course, the foreigner is locked into the company for X years, whereas a local can piss off after three months. Note: I say that as an Italian-born UK resident who looked into the US visa system and found it, er, suboptimal for everyone involved except corp…

Oh, so you've looked into the H1-B system But do you know anyone that's actually employed like that? I know several - None of them get payed less than their colleagues - They are usually already at the "top of the chain", it's difficult for new/better job opportunities to show up. Inside the US it may be more difficult, surely, but they have no problem leaving the job and going elsewhere (and H1-B is a little less re…

[deleted]

Re: Microsoft: 'To fill 6,000 jobs, we'll pay $10K per visa'

#42

Post by zpk »

raverbashing wrote: post #35
toyg wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What? - US developer salary: 60k per year (cheap areas etc etc). Over three years: 180k. - Foreign visa: 50k per year + 10k one off. Over three years: 160k. And of course, the foreigner is locked into the company for X years, whereas a local can piss off after three months. Note: I say that as an Italian-born UK resident who looked into the US visa system and found it, er, suboptimal for everyone involved except corp…

Oh, so you've looked into the H1-B system But do you know anyone that's actually employed like that? I know several - None of them get payed less than their colleagues - They are usually already at the "top of the chain", it's difficult for new/better job opportunities to show up. Inside the US it may be more difficult, surely, but they have no problem leaving the job and going elsewhere (and H1-B is a little less re…

If we are using anecdotal evidence, I knew several paid less than their colleagues at my last job. And they were hired, because of that very reason, cheaper restricted labor. Its not hard for me to imagine in a country where labor force has been at odds with employers the last 30 years that employers would want to import in cheaper labor. India has been exporting cheap labor for the past 200 years, in fact its part of the Tata and Infosys business model here. Using the guise of an engineering shortage goes over a lot better than saying lets suppress wages by importing talent.

Re: Microsoft: 'To fill 6,000 jobs, we'll pay $10K per visa'

#43

Post by zpk »

toyg wrote: post #29
SeckinJohn wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not legal to underpay H1Bs. They literally should not be able to fill those positions with Americans if they are complaining about this.

I'm curious to know which sort of rocket science Microsoft does that is not taught at US universities. Of course they are unable to fill positions at a given salary level . It's quite hard to find tomato-pickers at slave-like wages.

I could not agree with you more. It's literally part of the business model for consulting firms here.

Re: Microsoft: 'To fill 6,000 jobs, we'll pay $10K per visa'

#44

Post by raverbashing »

zpk wrote: post #42
raverbashing wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, so you've looked into the H1-B system But do you know anyone that's actually employed like that? I know several - None of them get payed less than their colleagues - They are usually already at the "top of the chain", it's difficult for new/better job opportunities to show up. Inside the US it may be more difficult, surely, but they have no problem leaving the job and going elsewhere (and H1-B is a little less re…

If we are using anecdotal evidence, I knew several paid less than their colleagues at my last job. And they were hired, because of that very reason, cheaper restricted labor. Its not hard for me to imagine in a country where labor force has been at odds with employers the last 30 years that employers would want to import in cheaper labor. India has been exporting cheap labor for the past 200 years, in fact its part o…

Well, if they go to work for Tata or other similar SW sweatshops, that's an issue they should have investigated before taking that job.

Today there's Glassdoor (and others) and not knowing if your salary is competitive or not should be a factor in accepting a job overseas.

Especially in SW engineering good labour != cheap labour.

Re: Microsoft: 'To fill 6,000 jobs, we'll pay $10K per visa'

#45

Post by JoeAltmaier »

All the political chestbeating -protecting America against foreign labor - seems pretty silly when discussing skilled jobs like software. Its like, you're in a lifeboat and trying to get to shore and 3 rowers short. People are clamoring to get into your boat - first thing, you ask them what country they're from? WTF?

Lets draw a new political circle containing everybody/anybody who can program. Lets call it New Abrainica. Let them all have free visas wherever they wish on the planet. How does this hurt anyone? Oh sure, temporarily some lame spot will have trouble getting someone to move there to work. But now they can also move the job to where the programmers are! Or get remote workers.

Hey, this already sort of happens. So what's the real issue? I'm not sure, but this conversation keeps coming up.

Re: Microsoft: 'To fill 6,000 jobs, we'll pay $10K per visa'

#46

Post by toyg »

andrewcooke wrote: post #36
toyg wrote: post #8

A one-off $10K fee per hire is chump change, compared to the alternative: if your H1-B costs 50K per year + 10K one-off, he's still much cheaper than a US-based developer who wants 60K per-year -- and that's not exactly the top going rate. Corporations understand Marx much better than workers ever did.

marx is not synonymous with arithmetic (or even basic bookkeeping).

Nothing to do with that; it's about harnessing the reserve army of labour, which is practically unlimited at global scale.

Re: Microsoft: 'To fill 6,000 jobs, we'll pay $10K per visa'

#47

Post by eli_gottlieb »

barrkel wrote: post #39
toyg wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious to know which sort of rocket science Microsoft does that is not taught at US universities. Of course they are unable to fill positions at a given salary level . It's quite hard to find tomato-pickers at slave-like wages.

I don't think you're fully informed. Sometimes it's difficult to get qualified applicants at all, at any salary level. A lot of developers are more interested in the specifics of the job, product, company etc. than the salary (once it meets a certain minimum floor); and for other jobs, the specific knowledge and experience needed is very scarce. If there are 20 people qualified for a job and 21 open positions, no sal…

Oh, I dunno. American software hiring is blatantly broken. I've been there, I've seen it, submitting my resume half a dozen times to the same companies to finally get an interview and, yes, eventually, a job offer.

But the first five times being told that the company has no matches for me.

Meanwhile, the company complains it can't find engineers.

Re: Microsoft: 'To fill 6,000 jobs, we'll pay $10K per visa'

#48

Post by malandrew »

seppo0010 wrote: post #38
beedogs wrote: post #21

It's utterly fucked how restrictive and exploitative the US immigration system really is. It cost me about $5000 of my own money and a year and a half of my own time to become a permanent resident of Australia, with no advanced degree and no cash reserve needed. That route is literally impossible for potential U.S. immigrants. You either have to marry your way in, play the greencard lottery, have a PhD, or buy your w…

The H1-B is not tied to a single employer. But it only allows one month in case of lay off.

IMHO the H1-B visa should have a scheme like allowing 3 months for every every year worked. Since many tech jobs are filled for 2-4 years, that would give people 6-12 months to find something new.

Out of curiosity, how much does it cost a company to takeover an existing visa?

Re: Microsoft: 'To fill 6,000 jobs, we'll pay $10K per visa'

#49

Post by malandrew »

What do people think about making companies pay a significant premium salary (25%) to H1-B visa holders over US citizens? Seems like this would allay concerns over companies using H1-B visas to keep salaries down. Basically companies would use H1-B visas when an equivalent people cannot be hired domestically. If this approach works then maybe eliminating caps is possible, since it should be a somewhat self-correcting system.

Re: Microsoft: 'To fill 6,000 jobs, we'll pay $10K per visa'

#50

Post by akurilin »

seppo0010 wrote: post #38
beedogs wrote: post #21

It's utterly fucked how restrictive and exploitative the US immigration system really is. It cost me about $5000 of my own money and a year and a half of my own time to become a permanent resident of Australia, with no advanced degree and no cash reserve needed. That route is literally impossible for potential U.S. immigrants. You either have to marry your way in, play the greencard lottery, have a PhD, or buy your w…

The H1-B is not tied to a single employer. But it only allows one month in case of lay off.

Aren't there restrictions on switching companies once your GC application has been filed?
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