Python 3.3.0 released • Hacker News Board

Re: Python 3.3.0 released

#41

Post by bobwaycott » Sat, Sep 29, 2012, 4:56 PM UTC

maaku wrote: post #33

tbatterii wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-3333/ Last-Modified: 2011-01-16 09:57:25 +0000 (Sun, 16 Jan 2011) ... Status: Final ... Created: 26-Sep-2010 Until this was made final(January 2011), web frameworks that use the wsgi spec had no python 3 path short of ditching the wsgi spec. Now that it is final, there is a path to python 3 for web-dev. Cherrpy got there first I think. Pyramid/Webob got there, and others as well, an…

Django has unofficially supported python 3 for a year.

Wasn't experimental support only announced just over a month ago?

https://www.djangoproject.com/weblog/2012/aug/19/experimenta...

Re: Python 3.3.0 released

#42

Post by tisme » Sat, Sep 29, 2012, 4:59 PM UTC

I've done quite a bit of python development. One of the things that really bugs me about python is how they keep breaking older stuff. Other languages have been much more careful about maintaining backwards compatibility and I think that is a big factor in the retention of users.

Having to re-do any part of your code from one release of a language to another became a real deal breaker for me.

For an interpreted language that problem is even worse because you don't know you have a problem until that bit of code gets hit.

Re: Python 3.3.0 released

#43

Post by janzer » Sat, Sep 29, 2012, 5:05 PM UTC

Zenst wrote: post #37

"•A C implementation of the "decimal" module, with up to 80x speedup for decimal-heavy applications" That in itself is should make a few python gamers happy. Also some serious motivations for older version users, not all but more and more. Also many other interesting develepments others have highlighted already.

And 80x is apparently actually an understatement, at least for a few cases. Some numbers recently posted to python-dev show up to a 124X improvement:

  Precision: 9 decimal digits

  float:
  result: 3.1415926535897927
  time: 0.113188s

  cdecimal:
  result: 3.14159265
  time: 0.158313s

  decimal:
  result: 3.14159265
  time: 18.671457s


  Precision: 19 decimal digits

  float:
  result: 3.1415926535897927
  time: 0.112874s

  cdecimal:
  result: 3.141592653589793236
  time: 0.348100s

  decimal:
  result: 3.141592653589793236
  time: 43.241220s

Re: Python 3.3.0 released

#44

Post by krosaen » Sat, Sep 29, 2012, 5:14 PM UTC

tisme wrote: post #42

I've done quite a bit of python development. One of the things that really bugs me about python is how they keep breaking older stuff. Other languages have been much more careful about maintaining backwards compatibility and I think that is a big factor in the retention of users. Having to re-do any part of your code from one release of a language to another became a real deal breaker for me. For an interpreted langu…

Is this a 2x -> 3x gripe, or is there something specific in this release that breaks compatibility?

Re: Python 3.3.0 released

#45

Post by TazeTSchnitzel » Sat, Sep 29, 2012, 5:19 PM UTC

endlessvoid94 wrote: post #13

> The Python interpreter becomes aware of a pvenv.cfg file whose existence signals the base of a virtual environment’s directory tree As someone who hated the .ini configuration for logging in python 2.5, this smells a bit.

As someone who has used PHP and the infamous php.ini, this worries me too.

Re: Python 3.3.0 released

#46

Post by ams6110 » Sat, Sep 29, 2012, 5:21 PM UTC

tisme wrote: post #42

I've done quite a bit of python development. One of the things that really bugs me about python is how they keep breaking older stuff. Other languages have been much more careful about maintaining backwards compatibility and I think that is a big factor in the retention of users. Having to re-do any part of your code from one release of a language to another became a real deal breaker for me. For an interpreted langu…

If you're talking about breakage between version 2 and 3 that is sort of what the major version number bump implies. I don't do much python work these days, but if stuff is (deliberately) breaking between minor releases I would agree that's not very nice.

Re: Python 3.3.0 released

#47

Post by TazeTSchnitzel » Sat, Sep 29, 2012, 5:22 PM UTC

krosaen wrote: post #44

tisme wrote: post #42

I've done quite a bit of python development. One of the things that really bugs me about python is how they keep breaking older stuff. Other languages have been much more careful about maintaining backwards compatibility and I think that is a big factor in the retention of users. Having to re-do any part of your code from one release of a language to another became a real deal breaker for me. For an interpreted langu…

Is this a 2x -> 3x gripe, or is there something specific in this release that breaks compatibility?

If anything it should help, what with the u"" syntax being allowed now.

Re: Python 3.3.0 released

#48

Post by rdtsc » Sat, Sep 29, 2012, 5:25 PM UTC

tisme wrote: post #42

I've done quite a bit of python development. One of the things that really bugs me about python is how they keep breaking older stuff. Other languages have been much more careful about maintaining backwards compatibility and I think that is a big factor in the retention of users. Having to re-do any part of your code from one release of a language to another became a real deal breaker for me. For an interpreted langu…

> they keep breaking older stuff.

What are specific APIs or things they keep continuously breaking? Did you have issues with transition from 1 to 2 and now with 2 to 3.

Re: Python 3.3.0 released

#49

Post by krosaen » Sat, Sep 29, 2012, 5:27 PM UTC

I've always been uneasy about the increasing use of yield / generators in python these days, for instance, ndb in google app engine, twisted, etc. 'yield from' should make managing more complex uses of generators much easier - the question for me is, will this make me like widespread use of generators more, or will it make the use even more widespread, and still be kind of a pain to reason about, debug, etc.

Re: Python 3.3.0 released

#50

Post by tisme » Sat, Sep 29, 2012, 5:33 PM UTC

krosaen wrote: post #44

tisme wrote: post #42

I've done quite a bit of python development. One of the things that really bugs me about python is how they keep breaking older stuff. Other languages have been much more careful about maintaining backwards compatibility and I think that is a big factor in the retention of users. Having to re-do any part of your code from one release of a language to another became a real deal breaker for me. For an interpreted langu…

Is this a 2x -> 3x gripe, or is there something specific in this release that breaks compatibility?

I gave up before this release.

edit: oh my, that's a lot of downvotes for answering a question.