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USDA Threatens Stores Giving Discounts to People on Food Stamps

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Re: USDA Threatens Stores Giving Discounts to People on Food Stamps

#41

Post by dragonwriter »

lcnPylGDnU4H9OF wrote: post #39
giraffe_lady wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But for someone who has SNAP benefits, but isn't using a SNAP coupon to buy food (you know... because the government isn't funding the program), do these rules still apply? The lawyer that does pro bono work for the food bank I volunteer with believes this rule doesn't apply in this case for exactly that reason. But the legal challenges will take time and the threat is effective now regardless so it barely matters.

> the threat is effective now What is the actual threat? Assuming a grocery chain ignores the interpretation, what troubles could they face?

Banning from the EBT program, civil fines, and, potentially, criminal charges (I’m not sure you can wedge discounts for SNAP beneficiaries into any of the criminal violation categories though it seems like if you did it for cash purchases by SNAP beneficiaries as a way of trying to help deal with the suspension or reduction of SNAP benefits, it could probably be argued to be indirect trafficking—using SNAP payments to subsidize other inventory—which is criminal.)

Re: USDA Threatens Stores Giving Discounts to People on Food Stamps

#42

Post by pseudalopex »

Steven420 wrote: post #37
pseudalopex wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Forbidding charging SNAP recipients more is reasonable. Why is it reasonable to forbid charging SNAP recipients less?

People that don't work should not get preferential treatment over people that actually contribute to the economy. Many people that need food stamps are just temporarily in a bad position but many are just taking advantage

Your argument was an argument against food assistance. Not for telling grocers how they may run their businesses.

In general, most Americans ages 16 to 59 who aren’t disabled must register with their state SNAP agency or employment office; meet any work, job search or job training requirements set by their state; accept a suitable job if one is offered to them; and work at least 30 hours a week. Failure to comply with those rules can disqualify people from getting SNAP benefits. In addition, nondisabled adults without dependents must either work or participate in a work program for 80 hours a month, or participate in a state workfare program. If they fail to do so, they can only receive SNAP benefits for three months out of any 36-month period.[1]

The majority of families that received benefits from the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP) in 2018 included at least one employed individual, according to the American Community Survey (ACS).[2]

[1] https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/07/19/what-the-...

[2] https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2020/07/most-families...

Re: USDA Threatens Stores Giving Discounts to People on Food Stamps

#43

Post by bitshiftfaced »

pseudalopex wrote: post #10
chasd00 wrote: post #6

Read the article and then you'll put away your pitchforks. A basic rule is snap recipients can't be treated differently than non-program members which seems reasonable. "At issue is SNAP’s “Equal Treatment Rule,” which bars stores from either discriminating against people in the program or offering them favorable treatment. "

Forbidding charging SNAP recipients more is reasonable. Why is it reasonable to forbid charging SNAP recipients less?

I think you have to ask why you'd want grocery stores to compete over SNAP customers in a way that doesn't already overlap with how they compete over non-SNAP customers.

Re: USDA Threatens Stores Giving Discounts to People on Food Stamps

#44

Post by Simulacra »

I am conflicted a little on all of this. EBT etc should in most cases temporary, outside of disabled, elderly, and children. I would like to see more of that money going to school meals, lunch and breakfast. Feed the kids directly, with another amount going to parents. Ia that feasible?

Is there any way to insure kids are being taken care of?

Re: USDA Threatens Stores Giving Discounts to People on Food Stamps

#45

Post by Tadpole9181 »

bitshiftfaced wrote: post #43
pseudalopex wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Forbidding charging SNAP recipients more is reasonable. Why is it reasonable to forbid charging SNAP recipients less?

I think you have to ask why you'd want grocery stores to compete over SNAP customers in a way that doesn't already overlap with how they compete over non-SNAP customers.

Because they're decent human beings trying to help the less fortunate. Good God, is the concept of kindness this foreign to us now?

Re: USDA Threatens Stores Giving Discounts to People on Food Stamps

#46

Post by FireBeyond »

tpmoney wrote: post #22
pseudalopex wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Forbidding charging SNAP recipients more is reasonable. Why is it reasonable to forbid charging SNAP recipients less?

It a consumer protection and fair competition thing (and probably anti-fraud too). There are similar rules in place for medicare/medicaid too. Gifts of any kind to induce a patient to choose your facility over any other are forbidden. That's why if you look really closely at ads at pharmacies encouraging Medicare/Medicaid people to switch, even though they talk about all these free things, they're all things that are…

> There are similar rules in place for medicare/medicaid too.

And yet the Medicare/Medicaid reimbursement rates for services often differs from that of insured, and cash patients...

Re: USDA Threatens Stores Giving Discounts to People on Food Stamps

#47

Post by FireBeyond »

Steven420 wrote: post #37
pseudalopex wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Forbidding charging SNAP recipients more is reasonable. Why is it reasonable to forbid charging SNAP recipients less?

People that don't work should not get preferential treatment over people that actually contribute to the economy. Many people that need food stamps are just temporarily in a bad position but many are just taking advantage

Who are you to tell another person or business that they can't give people in a bad position a little help?

I'm sure you equally complain when some businesses over food or drinks to the homeless too.

Re: USDA Threatens Stores Giving Discounts to People on Food Stamps

#48

Post by altairprime »

ElevenLathe wrote: post #36
altairprime wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To do that without being abused by rich bargain-hunters, you can add in the Costco membership model with geo-discounted signups.

Now you're back to discriminating instead of treating all purchasers the same way, which was the whole point of the theorized workaround.

Geo-discounted membership fees aren’t food stamps pricing discrimination under the USDA restrictions. I’m not trying to unilaterally eliminate pricing differentials based on income, I’m just trying to find a way for a grocery store to lower the costs of food, without being exploited by wealthy people, during a food stamps crisis. I suspect the USDA can’t regulate club membership discounts, but someone else can research that.

Re: USDA Threatens Stores Giving Discounts to People on Food Stamps

#49

Post by FireBeyond »

SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #20
pseudalopex wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Forbidding charging SNAP recipients more is reasonable. Why is it reasonable to forbid charging SNAP recipients less?

The relevant regulation ( https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-7/subtitle-B/chapter-II/s... ) says "No retail food store may single out coupon users for special treatment in any way.". Imagine, for example, a retailer that offers SNAP discounts only on the worst cuts of meat they otherwise have trouble selling; you can imagine why a SNAP recipient might feel uncomfortable with that, even though in principle it's a Pare…

If you're not actually using SNAP benefits for that particular purpose, I don't think this applies. But it won't matter, because the threat will have the desired chilling effect.

> Imagine, for example, a retailer that offers SNAP discounts only on the worst cuts of meat they otherwise have trouble selling

Oh, yes, we're just looking out for the vulnerable SNAP recipients...

Re: USDA Threatens Stores Giving Discounts to People on Food Stamps

#50

Post by FireBeyond »

Simulacra wrote: post #44

I am conflicted a little on all of this. EBT etc should in most cases temporary, outside of disabled, elderly, and children. I would like to see more of that money going to school meals, lunch and breakfast. Feed the kids directly, with another amount going to parents. Ia that feasible? Is there any way to insure kids are being taken care of?

What EBT money?

This is private businesses choosing to offer discounts to customers who'd otherwise be eligible for using EBT funds that are not available. In other words, a credible argument could be made that it's none of the government's damn business.

> I would like to see more of that money going to school meals, lunch and breakfast. Feed the kids directly, with another amount going to parents. Ia that feasible?

That's not the alternative here. There's no alternative here. Trump has said explicitly that he has no intention of offering ANYTHING until the Democrats agree to open up the Government again, on his terms.

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