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Building a 2.5kWh battery from disposable vapes to power my workshop [video]

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Re: Building a 2.5kWh battery from disposable vapes to power my workshop [video]

#41

Post by dingnuts »

pjc50 wrote: post #35
jonesjohnson wrote: post #2

The thought that disposable vapes are still not forbidden in my country (EU) is making me sick.

My reading of the WEEE directive is that no electrical equipment can be "disposable", it should all be recyclable and recycled. Actual enforcement of this is non-existent. If you see a "disposable" vape discarded in the street, look for the crossed out bin logo.

Manufacturers should be required to actually take back anything with that logo. You can buy so much stuff that becomes a serious problem to dispose of and that stupid logo is all that's required of the manufacturer. Cost of disposal would then get added to the price of the object, as it should to begin with!

Everything with a sealed, soldered battery makes me furious on this front. Every item with a battery that recharges through the device instead of having a battery door like a Game Boy is on a timer, and for no good reason other than planned obsolescence.

Re: Building a 2.5kWh battery from disposable vapes to power my workshop [video]

#42

Post by Aurornis »

Fwirt wrote: post #26

The amount of e-waste in general is truly nauseating. My employer just cleaned 30 years of “junk” out of our in house IT “tech shop” and the number of working but obsolete computers that went out (many simply because they couldn’t support Windows 11) is sickening to me. The amount of carbon generated from the mining activities, steel production, etc. that went into producing “obsolete” computers has to absolutely dwa…

> A 12 year old i7 server runs my NVR, home automation setup, web server, and network router (not to mention a small handful of other services) without even breaking 25% CPU usage. We could replace so many data centers with old desktops.

Replacing concentrated and highly optimized data center servers with 10-1000X as many old desktop computers idling away at 50-100W or more would be a terrible tradeoff. That would explode the energy usage by orders of magnitude.

Re: Building a 2.5kWh battery from disposable vapes to power my workshop [video]

#43

Post by holoduke »

PaulKeeble wrote: post #11
viraptor wrote: post #3

Just curious: if you wanted to do something like that, but prevent a... thermal event, how would you protect an experimental battery realistically? Build a brick enclosure? A fire safe?

Current building regulations in the UK are moving towards outside storage of batteries now because of NMC's having a high tendency to combust. The battery management systems do detect a lot of issues, thermal and shorts but at some point I think government is going to force these to be on the outside of houses. The right answer is LifePO4 for home storage, does not combust and has good enough density.

It's usually not the batteries causing fire. A broken fuse. Or something else. I can create a pretty heavy welder from my 1000 amps of 48v system.

Re: Building a 2.5kWh battery from disposable vapes to power my workshop [video]

#44

Post by detritus »

trollied wrote: post #13
jonesjohnson wrote: post #2

The thought that disposable vapes are still not forbidden in my country (EU) is making me sick.

They are illegal now in the UK.

'illegal' in that manufacturers add on a usb port and the basic board to tick the reusable check box.

I'm still seeing almost as many of these cast on the streets as I did a year ago.

Re: Building a 2.5kWh battery from disposable vapes to power my workshop [video]

#45

Post by Fwirt »

Aurornis wrote: post #42
Fwirt wrote: post #26

The amount of e-waste in general is truly nauseating. My employer just cleaned 30 years of “junk” out of our in house IT “tech shop” and the number of working but obsolete computers that went out (many simply because they couldn’t support Windows 11) is sickening to me. The amount of carbon generated from the mining activities, steel production, etc. that went into producing “obsolete” computers has to absolutely dwa…

> A 12 year old i7 server runs my NVR, home automation setup, web server, and network router (not to mention a small handful of other services) without even breaking 25% CPU usage. We could replace so many data centers with old desktops. Replacing concentrated and highly optimized data center servers with 10-1000X as many old desktop computers idling away at 50-100W or more would be a terrible tradeoff. That would ex…

Unless you count in the effects of distributed solar and the environmental effects of building said datacenters in the first place. Many homes with solar produce more than they consume, and many homes pay for heat. Instead of new construction (concrete is another huge CO2 contributor) and AC units or pumping surface water for cooling, putting a server in your house is basically free heat and making use of an existing, underutilized resource.

I could run my entire rack off of one to two solar panels (decommissioned ones from a power farm might I add). Even that would take a few years to pay for itself (when you factor in the costs of mounting and permitting) and my power company over 80% renewables the last time I checked anyway.

Re: Building a 2.5kWh battery from disposable vapes to power my workshop [video]

#46

Post by Fwirt »

lukan wrote: post #38
Fwirt wrote: post #26

The amount of e-waste in general is truly nauseating. My employer just cleaned 30 years of “junk” out of our in house IT “tech shop” and the number of working but obsolete computers that went out (many simply because they couldn’t support Windows 11) is sickening to me. The amount of carbon generated from the mining activities, steel production, etc. that went into producing “obsolete” computers has to absolutely dwa…

"We could replace so many data centers with old desktops." But I assume for way more energy costs? And the manual labour to sort out the different mainboards and make everything interoperable is not free either. But I guess it means lots of opportunity for unconventional low costs projects to scramble things together. Win 10 got another year of support, but I assume next year, even more computers will be avaiable qui…

See my other reply, when people count energy costs they fail to take into account the existing sunk cost of producing said resources, and the energy from having to build out new infrastructure to create these “more efficient” datacenters.

It’s like when people replace their fridge with a “more efficient” one and wipe out any energy savings with the cost of the new fridge. The difference in energy use will not pay for the new fridge for many years and by then you’ve already replaced the new fridge with another newer “better” one.

Re: Building a 2.5kWh battery from disposable vapes to power my workshop [video]

#47

Post by [deleted] »

hamdingers wrote: post #19
viraptor wrote: post #3

Just curious: if you wanted to do something like that, but prevent a... thermal event, how would you protect an experimental battery realistically? Build a brick enclosure? A fire safe?

If you have the space for it, just put it outdoors 5' from anything flammable and you're good to go. This is not a hobby for folks in apartments unfortunately. I've had one of my DIY ebike batteries short and fail spectacularly at near full charge and was able to push it with a broom out of the garage into the driveway before any damage was done. Now I have a bench with wheels that I can take into the driveway for in…

[deleted]

Re: Building a 2.5kWh battery from disposable vapes to power my workshop [video]

#48

Post by huijzer »

Fwirt wrote: post #26

The amount of e-waste in general is truly nauseating. My employer just cleaned 30 years of “junk” out of our in house IT “tech shop” and the number of working but obsolete computers that went out (many simply because they couldn’t support Windows 11) is sickening to me. The amount of carbon generated from the mining activities, steel production, etc. that went into producing “obsolete” computers has to absolutely dwa…

Well luckily according to Bill Gates the climate is not really an issue anymore [1]:

> There’s a doomsday view of climate change that goes like this:

> In a few decades, cataclysmic climate change will decimate civilization. The evidence is all around us—just look at all the heat waves and storms caused by rising global temperatures. Nothing matters more than limiting the rise in temperature.

> Fortunately for all of us, this view is wrong. Although climate change will have serious consequences—particularly for people in the poorest countries—it will not lead to humanity’s demise.

Note that this is from someone who used to be one of the most focal "doomsday viewers", see for example [2] or [3].

[1]: https://www.gatesnotes.com/home/home-page-topic/reader/three...

[2]: https://youtu.be/rhNxDp8e7p8

[3]: https://youtu.be/zrM1mcKmX_c

Re: Building a 2.5kWh battery from disposable vapes to power my workshop [video]

#49

Post by 01100011 »

embedding-shape wrote: post #30
louwrentius wrote: post #4

Never ever consider doing something like this. There is a good reason why most home battery storage solutions are based on LFP batteries and not NMC as used in vapes. LFP is a much safer chemistry that can withstand higher temperatures and won’t bust into thermal runaway like NMC.

> Never ever consider doing something like this. Unless you're a hacker, and you like hacking on stuff, then by all means, read through all the warnings and please do consider doing similar to what OP did, it's a lot of fun and you'll learn a lot!

Eh, as a hacker who has wasted time on a lot of dumb stuff I would encourage people to not follow absolutely every obsession you have and think of the opportunity costs of new projects you take on.

Re: Building a 2.5kWh battery from disposable vapes to power my workshop [video]

#50

Post by squigz »

Fwirt wrote: post #26

The amount of e-waste in general is truly nauseating. My employer just cleaned 30 years of “junk” out of our in house IT “tech shop” and the number of working but obsolete computers that went out (many simply because they couldn’t support Windows 11) is sickening to me. The amount of carbon generated from the mining activities, steel production, etc. that went into producing “obsolete” computers has to absolutely dwa…

Isn't a lot of e-waste recyclable?
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