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'Do not trust your eyes': AI generates surge in expense fraud

ft.com

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Re: 'Do not trust your eyes': AI generates surge in expense fraud

#41

Post by trenchpilgrim »

kaonwarb wrote: post #17
embedding-shape wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much does it cost a business to manage say 10K company cards, maybe even globally? Sounds like a huge hassle, compared to "Send us a photo of your lunch receipt each day then at the end of the month we reimburse you".

Likely less than the sum of costs and losses associated with verifying photos of receipts.

My expense card has an app that uses AI to OCR your receipts, automatically fills out 95-100% of the expense form, and for most transactions auto-approves it via per diem policy rules.

Re: 'Do not trust your eyes': AI generates surge in expense fraud

#42

Post by Zanfa »

embedding-shape wrote: post #5

I'd probably get hate for this or whatever, but things like this is why it's inevitable that businesses and governments will eventually force cryptocurrencies on people, because then purchases/expenses/bills and anything else can be tracked fully across the spectrum. I'm not for it, don't want it, but I can't help myself but to see that as the future, as fraud ramps up even more, gets cheaper and businesses feel they…

Another usecase that already works better without any cryptocurrency or blockchain involved.

In Estonia, the government offers public key infrastructure, so any party needing to prove legitimacy of documents from a 3rd party can get it digitally signed by the originator. For example, when you need a bank statement, you can just download a signed PDF (technically it's a zip, but whatever) that proves the legal entity (or person) that ensures it's legitimate.

Re: 'Do not trust your eyes': AI generates surge in expense fraud

#43

Post by maxerickson »

ghaff wrote: post #31
maxerickson wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it's daily, why not just do a per diem and forget about tracking it?

Costs differ by location. Formal per diems, even with some attempt to adjust, end up screwing employees who are in higher cost locations (and/or have higher standards). Which may be fine--or not. But, to the degree that fraud becomes a real issue, it may be the simplest thing to do.

Shorting someone who is getting funds for lunch by a couple bucks is not in fact "screwing them".

Re: 'Do not trust your eyes': AI generates surge in expense fraud

#44

Post by trenchpilgrim »

maxerickson wrote: post #24
embedding-shape wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much does it cost a business to manage say 10K company cards, maybe even globally? Sounds like a huge hassle, compared to "Send us a photo of your lunch receipt each day then at the end of the month we reimburse you".

If it's daily, why not just do a per diem and forget about tracking it?

Some costs can't be per diem, e.g. travel costs to a conference or meeting for a distributed team.

Re: 'Do not trust your eyes': AI generates surge in expense fraud

#45

Post by linked_list »

embedding-shape wrote: post #5

I'd probably get hate for this or whatever, but things like this is why it's inevitable that businesses and governments will eventually force cryptocurrencies on people, because then purchases/expenses/bills and anything else can be tracked fully across the spectrum. I'm not for it, don't want it, but I can't help myself but to see that as the future, as fraud ramps up even more, gets cheaper and businesses feel they…

Why would a government use cryptocurrencies though? You only need that if you have no single source of truth. For a government digital banking is enough and way cheaper. Unless by crypto you just mean cryptographically signed transaction logs or something.

Re: 'Do not trust your eyes': AI generates surge in expense fraud

#46

Post by 3eb7988a1663 »

trenchpilgrim wrote: post #13
spankalee wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The much more easy thing is that they reimburse you only for what you charge to the company card. This is much more feasible now than it was even 10 years ago.

Indeed, my employer provides everyone who needs to travel or expense a company card that only works when you are actively traveling and knows your spending policies, what places you're expected to be, etc. I have had to occasionally expense something on a personal card and I had to get multiple levels of manager approval afterwards (not difficult, just explained the circumstance to them.)

This seems part of the design - make the non-card reimbursement process so painful that everyone prefers to use the corporate card.

Re: 'Do not trust your eyes': AI generates surge in expense fraud

#48

Post by trenchpilgrim »

3eb7988a1663 wrote: post #46
trenchpilgrim wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, my employer provides everyone who needs to travel or expense a company card that only works when you are actively traveling and knows your spending policies, what places you're expected to be, etc. I have had to occasionally expense something on a personal card and I had to get multiple levels of manager approval afterwards (not difficult, just explained the circumstance to them.)

This seems part of the design - make the non-card reimbursement process so painful that everyone prefers to use the corporate card.

Yeah, if I use the corporate card and stay in policy I don't have to fill out expense forms :)

Re: 'Do not trust your eyes': AI generates surge in expense fraud

#49

Post by embedding-shape »

linked_list wrote: post #45
embedding-shape wrote: post #5

I'd probably get hate for this or whatever, but things like this is why it's inevitable that businesses and governments will eventually force cryptocurrencies on people, because then purchases/expenses/bills and anything else can be tracked fully across the spectrum. I'm not for it, don't want it, but I can't help myself but to see that as the future, as fraud ramps up even more, gets cheaper and businesses feel they…

Why would a government use cryptocurrencies though? You only need that if you have no single source of truth. For a government digital banking is enough and way cheaper. Unless by crypto you just mean cryptographically signed transaction logs or something.

> Why would a government use cryptocurrencies though?

Once it happens in the future, probably because the already rich politicians have loaded up on some specific cryptocurrency they then try to pitch as the official currency for their country. Already happened once, and I'm sure we'll see more of it in the future as the overton window moves when the population gets older.

I don't think it's a good idea, I'm not eager to reach that future, but it's hard not to have the most negative view of the future considering what's happening in the moment around the world. I guess I'm too pessimistic not to see that as the eventual outcome.

Re: 'Do not trust your eyes': AI generates surge in expense fraud

#50

Post by embedding-shape »

Zanfa wrote: post #42
embedding-shape wrote: post #5

I'd probably get hate for this or whatever, but things like this is why it's inevitable that businesses and governments will eventually force cryptocurrencies on people, because then purchases/expenses/bills and anything else can be tracked fully across the spectrum. I'm not for it, don't want it, but I can't help myself but to see that as the future, as fraud ramps up even more, gets cheaper and businesses feel they…

Another usecase that already works better without any cryptocurrency or blockchain involved. In Estonia, the government offers public key infrastructure, so any party needing to prove legitimacy of documents from a 3rd party can get it digitally signed by the originator. For example, when you need a bank statement, you can just download a signed PDF (technically it's a zip, but whatever) that proves the legal entity…

> Another usecase that already works better without any cryptocurrency or blockchain involved.

Agreed! But if I've learned anything in my years on earth so far, is that anything that can be misused, will be misused, and if companies and government can do something that adds more abilities for tracking people, they'll go that way. If it can work cross-border, give people the impression it's "the future" and let companies/governments get more power, then they'll continuously push for that future.

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