Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

“iCloud Backup”

marco.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 85 posts

Re: “iCloud Backup”

#41

Post by MrEnigma »

kylec wrote: post #20

Last friday a co-worker managed to snag one of the new iPhone 5s from an AT&T store and wanted to transfer everything from his old iPhone 3GS to it. He had not been syncing his 3GS to any computer, so I thought it would be a simple matter to set it up to sync with iTunes on his work computer, have it make a backup, then restore that backup onto the iPhone 5. Unfortunately, this is not as easy as it should be. The syn…

There are a couple of things that cause a lot of pain.

One of those is the backup not being from the same iOS version. It will let you restore it to a new device, but then it doesn't complete (ie apps and such).

Just went through this going from an iOS 5 iPod Touch and an iOS 6 iPhone 5. The downside is that it makes old devices like the iPad 1 (which can't run iOS 6) going to say iPhone 5 (which can't run iOS 5), impossible to restore.

Re: “iCloud Backup”

#42

Post by dm3 »

guelo wrote: post #8

The whole iDevice ecosystem is complicated. I've seen even tech savvy people suffer data loss or prolonged inconvenience. A lot of it is caused by bad design and buggy software, but a lot of it is also caused by Apple arrogantly throwing up intentional roadblocks.

I consider myself technical, but when recently faced with a task of backing up contacts from an iPad to iCloud - I got scared.

The iPad had an iCloud account set up. It was unrelated to the current device's owner, so I couldn't back the device up to that account. There is a 'Remove account' button, but what's going to happen when I remove the account? Is something going to disappear from the iPad? How am I going to know?

I figured I should back up to the Mac first, then switch to the new iCloud account and restore if anything happened. I didn't even do that, because the last backup of contacts from the iPad got lost (probably because there was another iPad sync'ed with the same Mac) and I wasn't sure what would happen when I sync'ed it this time.

Maybe technical users tend to overthink these things, but data loss does happen and the current Mac's ecosystem is indeed confusing in that regard.

Re: “iCloud Backup”

#43

Post by lostlogin »

Macro comments that his grandparents don't want/shouldn't have to spend time dicking around with apple IDs. No one should have to. It's awful. Email, music sharing, itunes match, App Store, iMessage, FaceTime, iCloud, notes, and likely others. Getting an iOS device or mac to have fully functioning services usually takes me weeks to achieve (oh, that email account isn't arriving for some reason) as random things that worked just seem to stop working when peculiarities of personal account functionality are encountered. Why on earth the initial setup can't have an initial chance to enter apple I'd one, then a list of services to turn on. And if for some reason a password reset has to happen it's just terrible trying to get all the devices in the house working again (don't lose Apple TV remote...) is hours of work, and is so bad the password changes are a killer. Please Apple, save us, I'm more than 50 years younger and I don't want this either.

Re: “iCloud Backup”

#44

Post by yottabyte47 »

jarjoura wrote: post #34

The iPhone since its first version will only ever pair with one iTunes database on one computer. Although, yes, you can still backup your phone to any computer with iTunes, just on restore you won't be able to reinstall apps and music until you sync with the original computer. This is a political policy put in place and not any kind of limitation of iTunes Sync. I and several people have filed Radars on it over the y…

I bet it had something to do with media licenses/contracts.

Re: “iCloud Backup”

#45

Post by ripperdoc »

One of the most user friendly additions to software, ever, is the undo button. (if you want to feel how it is to use software without, try Linux in terminal for a while ;) ). And one of the best attempts to do this on a OS scale, is Time Machine. It should be as easy as bringing up a prompt and step or scroll backwards in time. You are really just stepping between data states. If you restore a state, it will merge with current state and step forward (which of course can be undone). You can decide to restore only one app, and thereby limit impact.

Update, restore, "are you sure you want to do this?", "pick the right destination", etc are user unfriendly concepts, and will make people nervous. Auto-update apps, but let people undo. Make restores undoable. Change "are you really sure?" to "don't worry, you can always undo".

Of course, you could argue, this will waste storage space. Well, with a good diff algorithm to rely on, not really that much. And even if so, you can always merge older states together (e.g. the detail of change is mostly relevant to very recent events - a few weeks back, I only care about major things like when I deleted all my contacts and didn't realize until now).

Re: “iCloud Backup”

#46

Post by josephcooney »

jpxxx wrote: post #24
barlo wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good point. So, in the end, a user just expects all to stay the same?

Yes! :) While it's delightful if iPad suddenly does new things, it's not expected.

So why are they updating at all then? If they don't expect any change (either positive or negative) why are they doing it?

Re: “iCloud Backup”

#47

Post by josephcooney »

norrishung wrote: post #33

Its possible that oversight here was on Marco's part and not the Apple Store's. If his grandfather had told an Apple Genius that "he wanted to make sure he could transfer his stuff onto a new iPad in case this one ever broke", chances are that the Genius would have known what he was talking about. Instead, Marco doesn't trust his grandfather to explain that coherently and has him write down the cryptic words "ICLOUD…

So, as per usual, when apple stuff doesn't work it is the user's fault. Right?

Re: “iCloud Backup”

#48

Post by ripperdoc »

ripperdoc wrote: post #45

One of the most user friendly additions to software, ever, is the undo button. (if you want to feel how it is to use software without, try Linux in terminal for a while ;) ). And one of the best attempts to do this on a OS scale, is Time Machine. It should be as easy as bringing up a prompt and step or scroll backwards in time. You are really just stepping between data states. If you restore a state, it will merge wi…

And to add a few points: - When you don't have network access and the device is at the limit of storage space (so that a major state changing operation couldn't be undone), for the love of god, get the user to connect it first. Let it back up it's state to computer or network. Don't allow situations which cannot be rolled back.

- A lot of apps and iOS features sync with the network. Will need a little work to make sure a restored local state doesn't interfere with the network state. It's solvable.

Re: “iCloud Backup”

#49

Post by primigenus »

This is why I'm so infatuated with the concept of the Chromebook.

A lot of the "techie" stuff like backups and restoring that Marco describes here is solved with a Chromebook. And it uses familiar user interface paradigms that people recognise from their experience using Windows (especially now that they added the windows management system that looks a lot like Windows 7), whereas the iPad has completely new paradigms that people transitioning from a computer will find strange and foreign.

Many people I've introduced to iPads and Android devices have ended up not really using them because they're much more familiar with the point and click windows-based desktop system of Windows than "apps".

Not that the Chromebook fixes everything. But Google has done a great job identifying some important problems with the way our technology works today and is trying to get rid of those problems or make them irrelevant by providing you with a device where you really don't have to worry about hooking it up to your PC to "sync", update the system OS version, figure out the settings for something techie and confusing, or use iTunes (my God, iTunes) to do anything.

Can you imagine what a Chromebook-iPad hybrid device could be like, with the automatic updating of Chrome, syncing system of Chrome, familiarity of Chrome, but the polished user experience and app ecosystem of an iPad?

Re: “iCloud Backup”

#50

Post by jpxxx »

josephcooney wrote: post #46
jpxxx wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes! :) While it's delightful if iPad suddenly does new things, it's not expected.

So why are they updating at all then? If they don't expect any change (either positive or negative) why are they doing it?

Because you or I or someone like us tells them they should for a new feature. Or they're fastidious. Or they feel like they'll screw something up if they don't. Or they do so in hopes of improving a poor experience. Or they pay attention to and trust their vendor's marketing. Or they take it in for service and its done for them. But for the most part it really doesn't mean anything to the common customer.
Post reply on HN