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After delays, Egypt set for lavish opening of grand museum

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Re: After delays, Egypt set for lavish opening of grand museum

#41
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Syria 2011 > Lebanon 1970s > Algeria 1990s > Afghanistan 1990s A few simple examples of nations who have went through rather devastating wars and civil wars including Islamists who's main ideology is that anything pre-Islamic is to be destroyed as it might lead to heresy, and who go out of their way to destroy historical places and artifacts. And if not war, then the fact that the cultures of those areas traditiona…

> Even during WW2 the UK, Germany and France set out programs to saveguard historical cultural treasures in protected areas. Did they though? That sounds revisionist. Eg The Badeker raids in one direction, a Bomber Harris and everything he did in the other. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baedeker_Blitz > A few simple examples of nations who have went through rather devastating wars and civil wars including Islamists w…

All EU nations have programs to safeguard cultural artifacts and the UK had trainings as late as the 80s or 90s I think.

As for your first point, the nations set to safeguard their treasures, doesn't mean they weren't at a total war were destroying those of the enemy is out of bounds. The fact that Germany and the UK safeguarded paintings and sculptures doesnt mean they dont destroy the other's one.

As for the Reformation, it happened 500 years ago. Even before and after many heresies and iconoclastic movements destroyed artifacts and historical things for being pagan but I don't see why are you trying to go so far back when there are literal examples of the Taliban explosing Buddhist symbols that date of this century, or Palmyra.

Yes, and? I am sorry but what does that have to do with anything. The point is that Middle Eastern countries dont value their historical heritage enough and in case of civil conflict would at best sell it in the black market, at worst destroy it for ideological reasons. I think in the region only Turkey, Armenia, Georgia and Jordan are trustworthy enough to safe-keep their cultural artifacts existing abroad.

Re: After delays, Egypt set for lavish opening of grand museum

#42
post #15
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Syria 2011 > Lebanon 1970s > Algeria 1990s > Afghanistan 1990s A few simple examples of nations who have went through rather devastating wars and civil wars including Islamists who's main ideology is that anything pre-Islamic is to be destroyed as it might lead to heresy, and who go out of their way to destroy historical places and artifacts. And if not war, then the fact that the cultures of those areas traditiona…

Can't this be on a case by case basis? After all, the British stole from so many places in the world - what if they returned stolen items to countries (India for example) that are interested and capable of safeguarding artifacts and didn't return to those countries where they might get destroyed (Afghanistan etc)?

I dont see an issue with such a thing, except on the case of legitimate purchase or corruption like the Egyprian bracelet that was smelted for gold.

Re: After delays, Egypt set for lavish opening of grand museum

#43
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll admit that I might misunderstand the point but surely there is a gray area of what is considered "stolen" and what is "preserved" Humans or groups can be responsible for many foolish acts. Stealing is one of those traits. I am open to accepting this when referring to the British Museum. However, I am also open to groups of people DESTROYING historical items all because they do not share their culture or religiou…

>As a British man myself and interested in Ancient Egyptian mythology, I would be just as much heartbroken of ancient items being destroyed. You don't have to be an Egyptian who's lineage traces back to this historical times. That's none of Britain's concern. How would you feel if Americans showed up and started breaking the angels off of Westminster Abbey or carting off Stonehenge because they didn't trust you to ke…

> That's none of Britain's concern. How would you feel if Americans showed up and started breaking the angels off of Westminster Abbey or carting off Stonehenge because they didn't trust you to keep them SAFE? You'd probably riot.

Let's not change things up with a made up invasion compared to the discovery of ancient egypt in 1800. Two different scenarios. We already have a good understanding of the meaning to Stonehenge today. For a Country to 'take it' is different compared to discovering something COMPELTELY NEW and captivating!

The point I am making is that I am not having some bias or attachment with my comment just because I live in the same Country that has "stolen" goods.

Doesn't matter whether I am British or not. Certainly not entitled.

If anything was stolen over 200 years ago from Britain but is "safe" today elsewhere at some museum is no concern for me. It is what it is. However, I am open to returning things back to their original Countries. Despite being British, it's unlikely to be my decision.

> They have the right to destroy their own culture if they want

It's not their own culture culture I am worried about.

> You people really have no moral high ground to stand on.

> And Europeans stripped the Colosseum for parts and the Church destroyed the artifacts of European pagan culture

There is NOTHING I have said/wrote that gives me a 'moral high ground' to any of this. Just focusing on Britian, we have a rich history - this includes changes in many ways, including culture, religion, artifacts, etc. This country on it's own has lost many historic things as a result - and I find it an absolute shame! Imagine the type of evidence we could have that may be in the BC era. It's not just about Britain but many other places around the world with rich history.

But I will say/write this - if we do return things, they are returned to a place where they are preserved/protected.

Seriously - don't get me started with Britain. Again, I am in favour of many things being returned. I only say this because this Country might be doomed in the next 50 years. Whatever we have that is historic to Britain.. whether Christain or pagan.. will likely be destroyed. This includes anything in museums. All because it goes against the "right" religion.

I don't write this as a Christian myself - but as an Atheist.

Re: After delays, Egypt set for lavish opening of grand museum

#44
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll admit that I might misunderstand the point but surely there is a gray area of what is considered "stolen" and what is "preserved" Humans or groups can be responsible for many foolish acts. Stealing is one of those traits. I am open to accepting this when referring to the British Museum. However, I am also open to groups of people DESTROYING historical items all because they do not share their culture or religiou…

I would add that these finds would, and many did, find there way to the black market, ending up in private collections, which is almost as bad as their destruction.

100% - I should have added this as part of my "gone missing" sentence at the end.
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