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Saving Android From a Second-Rate Future

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Re: Saving Android From a Second-Rate Future

#41

Post by talmand »

wmf wrote: post #21
talmand wrote: post #9

I don't get it, is he complaining about the Android OS or the UI skins that manufacturers choose to install on their devices? Does this mean that if I apply a custom theme to my Windows7 install it is no longer "true" Windows7? Older phones not getting Jelly Bean is a silly complaint at this point, can't we get past this? I just really don't get these type of articles, I can only assume they are link bait since they…

If someone else applied a non-removable custom theme to your Windows7 install it is certainly no longer "true" Windows7. The power relationship matters.

So at that point apps that worked in my "true" Windows7 would no longer work in this new non-removable custom theme version of Windows7? Because that's my threshold of whether it would be Windows or not.

Re: Saving Android From a Second-Rate Future

#42

Post by talmand »

twism wrote: post #24
talmand wrote: post #9

I don't get it, is he complaining about the Android OS or the UI skins that manufacturers choose to install on their devices? Does this mean that if I apply a custom theme to my Windows7 install it is no longer "true" Windows7? Older phones not getting Jelly Bean is a silly complaint at this point, can't we get past this? I just really don't get these type of articles, I can only assume they are link bait since they…

It's really just not a skin. Ex. There are buttons in the notifications tray for turning off and on services on the phone. The launcher is a totally different app that is not as performant as the stock.

So, in most cases it's added functionality that some people will like and some people will not. What's the problem with that? How is it no longer Android at that point?

Re: Saving Android From a Second-Rate Future

#43

Post by stephengillie »

talmand wrote: post #41
wmf wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If someone else applied a non-removable custom theme to your Windows7 install it is certainly no longer "true" Windows7. The power relationship matters.

So at that point apps that worked in my "true" Windows7 would no longer work in this new non-removable custom theme version of Windows7? Because that's my threshold of whether it would be Windows or not.

It's like Asus releasing laptops with Windows 7 and AsusFlash. AsusFlash would replace Explorer.exe as the shell, leaving you with some other weird interface - left clicking opens menus and you have to drag icons to a bar along the top to open the program.

Now, SP1 comes out, but Asus hasn't released SP1 with AsusFlash, and regular SP1 gives you the error "Please install your OEM Vendor specific SP1 patch". And you don't have the BIOS password either.

Later, SP2 comes out but no "AsusFlash SP2" and you're still on "SP0", the unpatched Win7. Are you using "True Windows" anymore?

Re: Saving Android From a Second-Rate Future

#44

Post by headShrinker »

_ea1k wrote: post #25
headShrinker wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, I don't see Samsung as much better. I was burned while holding a Galaxy S (Maxed out at 2.3.5) and Galaxy S2 (Maxed out at 2.3.5[US version]). As far as I know that is the end of the road for the S2.

I have a GSII (T989) in the US, and the latest official release is ICS (3.1).

I stand corrected. 3.1. sorry.

Re: Saving Android From a Second-Rate Future

#45

Post by talmand »

bitwize wrote: post #29
talmand wrote: post #9

I don't get it, is he complaining about the Android OS or the UI skins that manufacturers choose to install on their devices? Does this mean that if I apply a custom theme to my Windows7 install it is no longer "true" Windows7? Older phones not getting Jelly Bean is a silly complaint at this point, can't we get past this? I just really don't get these type of articles, I can only assume they are link bait since they…

Older phones not getting Jelly Bean is a silly complaint at this point, can't we get past this? Not when older iPhones get the latest iOS release as soon as it's available.

Why is it a factor that older iPhones can possibly get the latest version of iOS when we're talking about Android? That's comparing one company with one line of phones that they heavily control the ecosystem. A proper comparison would be how the Nexus line does in terms of upgrades. Which Apple probably still wins, but so what? It's a silly complaint because the people who buy the phones don't care.

My complaint is centered around the silliness of this whole farce about "this phone is superior because of A, B, and C while that phone SUCKS because the company once made a phone that looked just like my superior phone so therefore they can never make a decent phone in the future and I won't buy a phone from that company (nor should anyone) just like I won't buy a Ford truck because I had one that broke down on me forty years ago!" kind of crap that passes for a discussion on the matter.

These things are almost to the "battery dead? throw it away" stage so can we get past this which is superior crap? They are all wonderful devices and they all serve their owners quite well even though some do things that others do not. There are better things to debate the pros and cons over.

Re: Saving Android From a Second-Rate Future

#46

Post by headShrinker »

programminggeek wrote: post #37

Android was designed, I believe I read somewhere, to be the most carrier and OEM friendly OS possible for smartphones. It was meant to be skinned, loaded up with software by OEM's ad carriers, but still to act as a kind of compatibility layer between devices. That alone solves the dev problem with Java ME that you would potentially need to do hundreds of separate builds for different devices and so on. With Android y…

"It was meant to be skinned, loaded up with software by OEM's ad carriers, but still to act as a kind of compatibility layer between devices."

You are right, but this is definitely not understood by the masses or even tech-savvy users. iOS was built to separate the phone OS from the carrier, Android is some a bridge between carrier iterated phone OS and compatibility between the bunch.

Re: Saving Android From a Second-Rate Future

#47

Post by talmand »

stephengillie wrote: post #43
talmand wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So at that point apps that worked in my "true" Windows7 would no longer work in this new non-removable custom theme version of Windows7? Because that's my threshold of whether it would be Windows or not.

It's like Asus releasing laptops with Windows 7 and AsusFlash. AsusFlash would replace Explorer.exe as the shell, leaving you with some other weird interface - left clicking opens menus and you have to drag icons to a bar along the top to open the program. Now, SP1 comes out, but Asus hasn't released SP1 with AsusFlash, and regular SP1 gives you the error "Please install your OEM Vendor specific SP1 patch". And you d…

Yes, it just can't be upgraded to the latest version. If it can still run Windows applications it is Windows regardless of how badly an OEM ruins the install.

Re: Saving Android From a Second-Rate Future

#48

Post by talmand »

twism wrote: post #36
radley wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's just opinion. I have 2 stock JB Nexus devices and yetprefer to use my GS3. If the sims were the same size I would use both since JB has the better voice stuff right now. My point is numbers don't lie. The author laments the GS3 as second rate yet it's clearly the most in-demand device. The author is either deluded, had writers block (and dredged up an old premise), or hoped this might be a popular new link-bai…

Just saying, those numbers are driven by marketing, and the s3 is a newer device with better tech specs, plus the fact you can't get a JB device from any cellphone carrier.

And JB is required for a good experience how? How is JB required over ICS for that matter?

Re: Saving Android From a Second-Rate Future

#49

Post by protomyth »

talmand wrote: post #40
protomyth wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Older phones not getting Jelly Bean is a silly complaint at this point, can't we get past this?" I would imagine we can get it past it when every phone capable of running the newest Android version is allowed to upgrade to the newest Android version. Until then, it is an issue for developers who want to use the latest APIs.

I can't necessarily disagree, when it comes to developers. Just curious, what are these latest and greatest APIs that's preventing developers from producing quality apps because they don't exist on older phones? Is it because of security and/or functional updates to the OS or is it truly app APIs that some apps just can't exist without?

One example from the graphics APIs / changes:

"Earlier this year, Android 3.0 launched with a new 2D rendering pipeline designed to support hardware acceleration on tablets. With this new pipeline, all drawing operations performed by the UI toolkit are carried out using the GPU.

You’ll be happy to hear that Android 4.0, Ice Cream Sandwich, brings an improved version of the hardware-accelerated 2D rendering pipeline to phones, starting with Galaxy Nexus."

http://android-developers.blogspot.com/2011/11/android-40-gr...

You can walk your way from http://developer.android.com/about/versions/jelly-bean.html backwards to see what is missing on older phones.

Re: Saving Android From a Second-Rate Future

#50

Post by anigbrowl »

mchusma wrote: post #16
anigbrowl wrote: post #10

Android is second-rate because it's only in Jellybean that they've conquered the latency issues. People are using Android devices for passive consumption, rarely for any kind of content creation, because virtually all the content creators are and content creation software are already on iPad and have given up on Android, in much the same way that musicians almost exclusively used Macs for 10 years because nobody took…

I run a startup, we do iOS and android development. I switched from iOS to android last year with the galaxy nexus, now back to the iPhone 5. I can tell you we spend a ton of time dealing with fragmentation. Here is the issue. It takes you something like 2x the front end time to test on some devices (40 or so, which we own some and use services and friends for others). After you finish and release, you get about 10x…

Totally - I only know a small subset of developers, and that was low on their list of complaints.
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